Illinois Gubernatorial Debate on Pensions – Number 2

Another debate in Illinois and again, after the toilet questions had been exhausted, the pension issue came up:
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Both agree on the $130 billion hole but obviously are on the path of distracting from rather than tackling it. Contrast the jejune responses to the most serious challenge Illinois faces to how they perk up when allowed to wallow in the muck:

15 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by State Aid Guy on October 16, 2018 at 9:28 am

    I think Pritzker is lying in a significant way when he says “the Illinois Supreme Court has ruled we have to pay the pensions that are owed.”

    The Illinois Supreme Court has said that pensions and healthcare benefits YET UNEARNED cannot be restructured. According to the Illinois Supreme Court, whatever level of pension generosity Illinois has when an employee is hired, that level can never be reduced even going forward.

    Also, the point of Rauner’s lobbying the US Congress on Illinois pensions is to get Congress to overrule the Illinois Supreme Court and give the Illinois governor + legislature the power to restructure its pensions.

    Under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, Congress can override a state constitution.

    Reply

    • “Congress” cannot overrule the IL Supreme Court. And since these are purely IL STATE issues (pension reform), neither can the SCOTUS. The IL LEGISLATURE can at ANY TIME change the IL constitution to allow for future unearned pensions to be changed. They can LOWER salaries right now, by 25%, FREEZE them there, and then plug THAT $$$ into the pension hole, while at the same time REDUCE the amount of futur pensions because the gov pension is based upon the highest year/3-5 year average. LOWER salaries by 5%-30% PROGRESSIVELY; LEVEL 1) <$25K, NO REDUCTION; LEVEL 2) $25,001-$50,000 15% REDUCTION; LEVEL 3) $50,001-$75,000 20% REDUCTION; LEVEL 4) $75,001-$100,000 25% REDUCTION; LEVEL 5) $100,001-$150,001 28% REDUCTION; LEVEL 6) $150,001 and above^^ 30% REDUCTION.

      FREEZE all salaries and benefits at this level until the pensions are 125%-$135% FUNDED.

      There you go. I just came a plan to make the pensions whole, in less than 60 seconds. Is it PAINFUL? Hell Yes it is. Does the party who has the greatest benefit feel the most pain, the employee? YES. Is it FAIR? Hell Yes it is. Is it constitutional? Hell yes it is. Will it ever see the light of day? No, of course not. IL, like the rest of America today, is simply a Banana Republic, for sale to the highest bidder. The IL legislature, like all state legislatures, and the Congress, are bought and paid for with special interest $$; no different than a Banana Republic. Beit public unions or Big Business(especially Wall Street/Financial, Insurance, Healthcare, and even Education), all bought and paid for with special interest $$$.

      Reply

      • Well, said.

        Reply

      • Posted by Stephen Douglas on October 16, 2018 at 5:13 pm

        Some salaries were frozen, or even reduced, following the 2008-09 crash. Most have been restored/increased as the economy improved. Salary “freezes” are common to public employees. Even before the greatest recession, due to typical ongoing budget problems, public employees often went 2,3, or more years with no COLAs.

        Reduce wages by 5%-30%, and there will be a mass exodus. You are living in a dream world.

        Reply

        • Reduce wages by 5%-30%, and there will be a mass exodus. You are living in a dream world.
          Please, you trough feeders are being compensated 10-20 times what your GED/HS diploma skill set would bring in the real world. The notion that you, or any other trough feeder, is going to make for a “mass exodus” because you get compensated at 10 times the true market rate for your unskilled/semi-skilled labor (instead of 20 times market) only occurs in your dreams, aka in “Fantasyland” 🙂
          No go get cleaned up, some of that public employee “spin/stench” is starting to drift over…. https://youtu.be/IuOUG-mESIA

          Reply

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on October 17, 2018 at 11:48 am

            You are living in a dream word.

          • Look, like I said, go clean off that pubic employee SPIN!

          • Posted by El gaupo on October 17, 2018 at 7:15 pm

            Haha. Real world. That’s my fav. Nothing reeks of jealousy more than someone making “the real world” comment. My mortgage is due every month just like yours, loser. (If in fact you don’t still live in mommy’s basement) In fact, all my bills come due just like yours. What is this fantasyland you speak of? I’d like to move there. If it is anything like disneyworld, then sign me up!!!!
            Fools like you put a smile on my face. 🤣🤣
            Real world.

      • Posted by Stanley on October 16, 2018 at 6:23 pm

        “Congress” cannot overrule the IL Supreme Court. And since these are purely IL STATE issues (pension reform), neither can the SCOTUS.”

        I don’t believe that you are correct on that. The U.S. Congress can extend bankruptcy protection to the states. And the IL legislature with the concurrence of the governor can extend bankruptcy to the cities. And, the IL constitution can be amended to allow the diminishment of promised late life benefits including pension payments.

        At some point in time, this will be done. Mary Pat pointed out a few months ago that reality supersedes constitutions.

        Usually bankruptcy means that you are at the end of your resources. That means (probably at present) that you are tipping over like Detroit. Possibly, some very powerful price inflation could alter conditions to allow payment in very depreciated money. As uncivilized as it is, it is the only way out that I can see. I don’t believe Rauner’s forecast of shaping things up and jobs flooding back into the state will happen any time soon.

        Reply

        • Posted by NJ2AZ on October 16, 2018 at 7:49 pm

          I feel the same way you do.

          Either the pensions will not be paid in full, or they will be paid ‘in full’ with dollars that have significantly less value. I see no other possible outcome.

          Reply

        • I don’t believe that you are correct on that. The U.S. Congress can extend bankruptcy protection to the states.
          #1) IL does not NEED Congress to extend BK protections. States are SOVEREIGN, they cannot be sued by anyone, including their own citizens. States can REPUDIATE their debts right here, right now, any and or all debt. Sothey do NOT even need BK protections, from Congress or anyone else. Nothing you, me, or public employees can do about it. States cannot be sued for monetary $$ per the 11th Amendment. In state or federal court.
          #2) Congress cannot extend BK protection to states under any circumstances whatsoever, because again, states are SOVEREIGN. Federal courts (all BK law is federal) have no jurisdiction over any state. And never will.
          Last, the bottom line is IL and almost every muni in it, are going to default, PERIOD! It is not a matter of “if”, just “when”. Math wins eventually when you get this upside down. BUT, this situation can be cured, using the plan I outlined above. Salary cuts and freezes, and taking that $$ and plowing it right back into the unfunded pension systems.

          Reply

          • Posted by El gaupo on October 17, 2018 at 7:24 pm

            How is that working out for schools in OK, KY, WV, AZ?
            That’s what happens when you reduce/freeze salaries. Teachers went on strike and got everything they asked for. There was nobody to take their place. What makes you think it would be any different anywhere else? You really think your gonna cut prosecutors, judges, cops, public accountants, etc and still get the same level of talent in these positions? While you are dead on correct with states being sovereign, most people would rather pay and keep status quo than try your trickery. Go back downstairs and let mommy and daddy talk with the grown ups.

  2. @0:17 “Do you think we need further pension reform”
    Do bears **** in the woods?

    Reply

  3. […] But he repeats this at the most recent gubernatorial debate (see this Burypensions Blog update): […]

    Reply

  4. […] But he repeats this at the most recent gubernatorial debate (see this Burypensions Blog update): […]

    Reply

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