Election day means no real news even when there should be.
There is a close governor’s race in Kentucky, a state that has a lot of coal miners and public employees who need bailouts of their endangered pensions, yet coverage (at least by PBS – see full segment from Newshour at bottom of this blog) continues to distract with occasional truth seeping though. For example, another indication that a bailout of multiemployer plans is coming:
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If you have socialists and Trumpers on board for a bailout it will happen barring missteps, like insulting teachers:
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Full PBS segment:
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Burypensions Blog 
Posted by aka chicken little on November 5, 2019 at 7:47 pm
I wonder if the support for bailouts exceeds opposition to any bailouts. It seems to me that there are many more who would only be treated to higher taxes or who would not receive any benefit from a bailout than there are folks on the receiving end. It’s hard to imagine Butch Lewis passing, but a partial bailout say PBGC funding would probably leave everyone unhappy. It’s a first class mess, a world class tar baby. Will anyone argue that Social Security should be reduced and Butch Lewis passed? Hope not.
Posted by Tough Love on November 5, 2019 at 8:39 pm
Conceptually you are correct, but most voters are uninvolved and vote with a very low turnout rate, while those with a vested interest (the MEP Participants in this case) will vote with a VERY high turnout rate.
Our self-interested Elected Officials (whose #1, #2, and #3 goal is to be re-elected) understand that, so they pander to large groups who will vote for them ….. if they support their agenda (passage of a MEP Bailout in this case) even thought the overall population likely does NOT support it.
Posted by Tough Love on November 6, 2019 at 10:56 am
Off Topic………..
Quote of the day:
“John McLaughlin, the former acting director of the CIA, said part of the reason why federal laws do not prohibit the president from outing a whistleblower is that the concept was never considered within the realm of possibility before Trump took office.”
Posted by MJ on November 6, 2019 at 3:07 pm
TL What about Edward Snowden?
Posted by aka chicken little on November 6, 2019 at 5:53 pm
“Quote of the day:”
You still whining? Cry baby! Grow the f up! Trump won. Trump is president of the U.S.
Posted by Tough Love on November 6, 2019 at 7:24 pm
lol …………… Anthony Scaramucci has it right. Trump will be brought up on impeachment charges but won’t be found guilty. The Republican leaderships will instead tell him that he WILL be found guilty and it’s THAT or RESIGN.
He will choose the latter (in his warped mind, saving face ………. and likely claiming he’s the victor).
Posted by PS Drone on November 6, 2019 at 9:05 pm
Sorry TL. Total wishful thinking on his, and your, part. Unless we have a serious recession between now and next November, Trump will be re-elected, probably in a landslide. The Dems are either verging on incompetence or demise (Bernie, Biden) or completely fiscally insane (Warren).
Posted by Tough Love on November 6, 2019 at 9:23 pm
While Moody’s agrees with you, I don’t if Biden is his opponent. I’m counting on America’s citizenry to see Trump for the low-life creep that he really is, and show him the door.
Well, one thing for sure ……….. the next few weeks of Public impeachment hearings are certainly going to be interesting.
Especially listening to Trump get madder and crazier …. oh that “perfect” phone call.
Posted by aka chicken little on November 7, 2019 at 6:59 am
@tough luck: You might also treat yourself to some IDEAS. You believe that you are better than Trump. You are not. You are worse than Trump. And that is pathetic.
Posted by Tough Love on November 7, 2019 at 9:02 am
aka chicken,
Really ?
It would be very difficult to find someone with lower moral standards, less ethics, more dishonest, less truthful, more conniving, and more lacking in character than Trump.
I understand the very wealthy have benefited from Trump’s policies (especially the Tax changes), by why the Republican rednecks and those in Podunk support him is bewildering. He has done (and will do) nothing for them.
Posted by MJ on November 7, 2019 at 6:27 pm
TL, do you think the NJ politicians are “lower” than Trump
What exactly are you upset about that Trump wants to enforce our immigration laws, that he wants fairer trade policies that would benefit US workers, that he wants to pull out of endless wars, that he respects our military and police? He has appointed more conservative judges to balance out the liberal/conservative numbers. Or are you upset that he has exposed the swamp for what it is or are you just a hater?
I get it, the guy is a piece of work but he has managed to get more done in 2.5 years than any career politician.
Try to stop hating the pensioners, the cops, Trump, the public workers and unions…try to stop hating and maybe you will feel better. Tellme what politician has done anything for you? Hateful, hateful woman…..is this what you teach your children to disrespect, run your nasty mouth at dinnertime, spread your hate and bitterness to your children, co-workers, neighbors, family
I don’t know if I should feel sorry for you or just laugh at you
BTW I’m not a big Trump fan but I don’t feel the need to spread hate and negativity. Some presidents you like and others you don’t.
Posted by Tough Love on November 7, 2019 at 7:10 pm
Quoting ………….
“I get it, the guy is a piece of work but he has managed to get more done in 2.5 years than any career politician. ”
(1) saying Trump is simply “a piece of work”, is like saying the Pope is a bit religious.
(2) WRT to getting more done………..
(a) has he not denied science that almost all scientists agree is real (e.g. climate change),
(b) has he not corrupted many federal bureaucracies (E.g. EPA, Education) putting in cronies beholden to, and doing the bidding of big business (coal, student loan forgiveness)
(c) has he not trashed the respected global relationships built over decades (Iran nuclear deal, Paris accord)
(d) does he not make a mockery of the word “truth”
(e) can you name even one person who KNOWINGLY lies more often
(f) did he actually get his “wall” built …. and should he, will Mexico pay for it
(g) does he not need and seek “investors” for his real estate deals from Asian countries because the big American banks won’t loan him money ………. because he is not trustworthy?
And what has he really gotten done? He simply a master of STARTING a fight/crisis and then taking credit for “solving” his self-made crisis.
He is a creep ………. period.
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And FWIW, I don’t hate the pensioners, the cops, public workers. I do feel their pensions & benefits are ludicrously excessive (when measured under any reasonable metric), unnecessary, unfair to taxpayers, and unaffordable.
As for Trump and the Public Sector Unions ………… “dislike” would be more accurate than “hate”.
Posted by Tough Love on November 7, 2019 at 7:38 pm
This is just one example of what makes Trump “different”………. and pathetic.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/federal-judge-slams-trumps-attacks-judiciary/index.html
Posted by Tough Love on November 8, 2019 at 10:30 pm
MJ,
Would you mind reading this:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/politics/donald-trump-press-conference/index.html
Am I missing something, or is it’s you ?
Posted by MJ on November 9, 2019 at 5:33 am
TL, I’m not missing anything and we all know by now that it is never YOU but always the other commentators who get it wrong. I know you are blinded by your TDS but if you had bothered to read my other posts you would see many times where I have said that I am not a fan of his, he is a piece of work, I don’t agree with some of his policies especially on the environment, I disapprove of the name calling (like you do on here to others), etc etc
The point you are missing is that, by choice, I am not engaging in the hate, rage and negativity that you seem to thrive upon. Personally, I think that those, like you, filled with hate, envy and negativity have somehow used Trump as your excuse to let your true self shine through. Presidents come and presidents go but your hateful nature will always be a part of you.
I hope that on some level you can find peace and contentment in your life.
Peace out. Nuff said
Posted by Tough Love on November 9, 2019 at 8:22 am
MJ,
Compared to some of the Public Sector supporting commentators on this Blog, my “name calling” is rather mild …. usually being limited to Greedy and Moocher.
Compare that the the MANY vulgars comments from EL gaupo and a few others.
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And you are confusing “hate” for a strong advocacy to end an enormous financial ripoff of the Taxpayers. I don’t know in what ways, or to what extent specific Local Union offices (e.g. PBA “Locals”) have colluded with their Towns’ Elected Officials to gain unfair advantage, but as a group a few group so greedy.
Just as an example, there WAS a (now dissolved) Law Practice in California (Lackie, Dammeier & McGill … composed of mostly former police officers-turned lawyers) whose practice focused on Police Union as clients. Why? Because they were so aggressive and used such underhanded methods that they (evidently) were very successful in getting the Unions’ goals met. After reading this Law-practice’s “Union Playbook” (pasted below) perhaps you’ll better understand who Taxpayers are REALLY bargaining with.
Click to access UNION_PLAYBOOK_10-25-16.pdf
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Lackie, Dammeier & McGill
The Union Playbook
Negotiations After Impasse–Association Options
In gearing up for negotiations, hopefully your association has developed some political ties with members of your governing body. Now is the time those political endorsements, favors, and friendships come into play. When negotiations reach an impasse, the association will have options which may be utilized simultaneously, or one before the other.
Political Option
As most association leaders already know,associations should be selective in their battles. However, this does not mean that the association should roll over for everything either. Association respect (by the employer) is gained over years of actions or inactions. Associations who rarely, if ever, take things to the mat or challenge the employer gain little respect at the bargaining table or elsewhere. The flip side is also true. Those associations that battle over every minor issue may be seen as an association that simply cannot be pleased, so why bother. While it is a fine line, somewhere in the middle is where you want to be. The association should be like a quiet giant in the position of, “do as I ask and don’t piss me off.”Depending on the circumstances surrounding the negotiations impasse, there are various tools available to an association to put political pressure on the decision makers. A few things to keep in mind when utilizing these tools are the following:
Public Message
Always keep this in mind. The public could care less about your pay, medical coverage and pension plan. All they want to know is “what is in it for them.”Any public positions or statements by the association should always keep that focus. The message should always be public safety first. You do not want wage increases for yourselves, but simply to attract better qualified candidates and to keep more experienced officers from leaving.
The Future
Also keep in mind that once the fight is over, you and your members will still be working there. Avoid activities where one or just a few members are involved who can be singled out for retaliation. Always keep in mind your department policies and the law. You should be in very close contact with your association’s attorney during these times to ensure you are not going to get yourself or any of your members in trouble. For associations in the Legal Defense Fund, please keep in mind that concerted labor activity should always be discussed with the LDF Trustees prior to the activity to ensure coverage.
Let the Debate Begin
Again, the ideas listed below are not in any particular order. Just as in your use-of-force guidelines, you can start with simple verbal commands or jump to a higher level, based on the circumstances.Keep in mind that most of these tools are not to deliver your message to the public but are designed to simply get the decision makers into giving in to your position.
•Storm City Council–While an association is at impasse, no city council or governing board meeting should take place where members of your association and the public aren’t present publicly chastising them for their lack of concern for public safety.
•Picketing–Plan a few well organized picketing events. Keep these events spread out to avoid burning out your membership.
•Public Appearances–During impasse, the association should make known at every significant public event, such as parades, Christmas tree lightings, theMayor’s Gala and any other event of interest to the decision makers, that the association is upset about the lack of concern for public safety.
•Newspaper Ads–Again, keep the message focused on “public safety.”•Billboards–Nothing seems to get more attention than a billboard entering the city limits which reads that crime is up and the City could care less about your safety•Websites–GardenGroveSucks.com was a big hit.
•Job Fair–Getting your members to apply at a large local agency, which causes an influx of personnel file checks by background investigators always sends a strong signal. Keep this for last, as some of your members may ultimately leave anyway.
•Work Slowdown–This involves informing your members to comply closely with Department policy and obey all speed limits. It also involves having members do thorough investigations, such as canvassing the entire neighborhood when taking a 459 report and asking for a back-up unit on most calls. Of course, exercising officer discretion in not issuing citations and making arrests is also encouraged.
•Blue Flu–This one is very rarely used and only in dire circumstances. As with all of these, please consult your association’s attorney before even discussing this issue with your members.
•Public Ridicule–Blunders by the City Manager, Mayor, or City Council members or wasteful spending should be highlighted and pointed out to the public at every opportunity.
•Referendum / Ballot Initiatives–Getting the public to vote for a wage increase is seldom going to fly, however, as a pressure tactic, seeking petition to file a referendum on eliminating the City Manager’s position for a full time elected mayor may cause the City Manager to rethink his or her position.
•Mailers–Again, the message should be for “public safety” in getting the public to attend city council meetings and to call the City Council members (preferably at home) to chastise them for their inaction.
•Campaigning–If any members of the governing body are up for election, the association should begin actively campaigning against them, again for their lack of concern over public safety. If you are in a non-election year, make political flyers which you can explain will be mailed out the following year during the election season.
•Focus on an Individual–Avoid spreading your energy. Focus on a city manager, councilperson, mayor or police chief and keep the pressure up until that person assures you his loyalty and then move on to the next victim.
•Press Conferences–Every high profile crime that takes place should result in the association’s uproar at the governing body for not having enough officers on the street, which could have avoided the incident.
Of course, other ideas that associations come up with are very imaginative. Just keep in mind, the idea is to show the decision makers that the public favors public safety and it will only harm their public support by not prioritizing you and almost equally as important, to let them know that the next time they should agree with you much sooner
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That Law Firm got into real trouble………..
Posted by El Gaupo on November 9, 2019 at 9:44 am
I have been out of the loop for a little while due to a death in the family (my father). TL, while I admit and do apologize for the vulgar comments, it is usually because as MJ says, you are never wrong and you are relentless with the moocher and greedy stuff. For every wildcat union group like these attorneys, (who were condemned by the officers) there is also a cop hater or politician that tries to screw us.
You managed to really piss off three or four folks on here with the anti Trump stuff. I get it. He isn’t the best guy in the world. However, the people on here, like me, are entitled to rebut your opinion without having your opinion continues to be shoved down their throats along with name calling. No one thinks he is the greatest. But we also see the stock market at record levels along with our 401/457 plan. It is very easy to concentrate on social issues when times are good. When you aren’t worried about being on the bread line, you can focus on nonsense like “preferred pronouns” and Free health care for illegal immigrants and voting rights for felons. We don’t want to go there, all the while seeing our 401k balances drop. That is why we endorse him. Because his opponents suck so bad.
The environment? Despite Trump—coal is almost dead and solar and wind are increasing rapidly, electric cars will also be more commonplace. I’ll all for the environment, just not health care for illegals.
Oh well. You are probably a decent person, but it seems like if we all went out for a few beers, you would be the one to not know when to just drop it and be a fellow human being. The rest of us could probably speak our mind and then have a few laughs.
In the meantime, I am going to drop back like MJ and chicken and reduce my comments on here. No need to be on here every day.
Posted by Tough Love on November 9, 2019 at 10:04 am
El gaupo,
Very sorry to hear about your father …. my sincere condolences.
Posted by E on November 9, 2019 at 10:46 am
Thank you TL. I appreciate it.
🙂
Very sudden. 85 but healthy. No warning. Conversely, I watched (as did my dad) my mother suffer for years with cancer, wheelchair, stair chair in the house, long hospital stays, lots of pain before she passed 2 years ago. I think all on here would rather go (as we all must) the way he did.
I sincerely appreciate the condolences. Guess I didn’t need the puppy for the kindness. I am genuinely impressed and thankful. 😉
Posted by Marine1 on November 10, 2019 at 5:22 pm
El Gaupo- Sorry for your loss my brother.
Posted by E on November 10, 2019 at 9:34 pm
Thank you Marine1.
Posted by Douglas on November 9, 2019 at 2:32 pm
El gaupo, also sorry to hear about your Dad. And agreed, I hope to go the same way.
Tough Love, also agree with you totally about Trump. Economically, there is (maybe) room for debate. I personally saved about nine hundred dollars last year in taxes. Banked all of it and more while waiting for the other shoe to drop.
“During a 2017 briefing with senior officials, Trump responded to a presentation of charts and graphics by saying, “Yeah, but I won’t be here,” according to a source The Daily Beast said witnessed the comment.” *
Domestically or internationally, it is impossible to deal with someone who lies so blatantly. Or so often.
*That may be fake news, but what are the odds?
Posted by MJ on November 10, 2019 at 5:33 am
El Gaupo, so very sorry to hear of your dad’s passing. It sounds as though he lived a good life and I’m sure he was very proud of you. No one knows the day or the hour so we must enjoy every minute we have in this world.
My heartfelt condolences.
I’m staying off of here too as I agree no need to be on here everyday.
Peace
Posted by E on November 10, 2019 at 11:04 am
Thank you for the condolences. 👍
Nice to see that behind the keyboards of this forums are decent folks.