According to an email blast from one of the multiemployer plans that applied to suspend benefits under MPRA, and was denied:
Late tonight the House of Representatives with Bipartisan support passed HR 397, the Butch Lewis Act. This marks the first big step in passage of pension relief legislation. Also todaythe Butch Lewis Act was reintroduced by 28 Democratic Senators in the US Senate. Any final Bill needs to be passed by both the House and the Senate and signed by the President to become law. Although there is still much to be done to get to the finish line, today was a very good day. Both the House and the Senate arein the August recess at the end of this week.
H R 397 RECORDED VOTE 24-Jul-2019 8:34 PM
QUESTION: On Passage
BILL TITLE: Rehabilitation for Multiemployer Pensions Act
| Ayes | Noes | PRES | NV | |
| Democratic | 235 | |||
| Republican | 29 | 168 | ||
| Independent | 1 | |||
| TOTALS | 264 | 169 |
Burypensions Blog 
Posted by Tough Love on July 24, 2019 at 11:05 pm
Well, the Concluding paragraph in your earlier Post on Minority views stated that HR 397 has little chance of passing in the Senate. Hopefully they’re correct as we (meaning the Taxpayers) have enough MOOCHERS to deal with already (Public Sector Unions/workers), and we don’t need another group to deal with, the MEP participants.
Posted by jim Tipton on July 25, 2019 at 12:24 pm
Perhaps you need to get more information from the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, a Federal Agency created to protect private pensions. If these pension funds fail the Pension Guaranty Corporation will be required to fund these pension, of course at lower levels, which would cost tax payers more than giving the pension funds low interest loans.
Posted by stanley on July 25, 2019 at 5:46 pm
“… the Pension Guaranty Corporation will be required to fund these pension, of course at lower levels, which would cost tax payers more than giving the pension funds low interest loans.”
OK, you’re saying that paying reduced pensions through PBGC is more expensive than paying the full pensions with loans that won’t be repaid. Remember, that Butch Lewis RESTORES the pensions that have already been reduced under the Kline Miller law.
In addition, there are many public pensions that are very poorly funded and after cosigning on the MEP pensions how likely is it that lawmakers can turn their backs on public employee in need of a pension bailout?
It is very unfortunate but old people health and pension benefits have been promised at a level that those working and pulling the cart can’t handle. Assistance to the MEP PBGC would be very generous and the best way out of this mess. It is better that a few older people settle for a walk around the block rather than a ride around the course on the golf cart.
I can’t run numbers to prove it, but I believe that all will be better of if we learn to start living within our means. I don’t know where the breaking point in the U.S. Dollar is, but I do know that if it fails there will be great suffering. Bad price inflation is no fun and that is what we are flirting with.
Posted by Tough Love on July 25, 2019 at 7:18 pm
Jim Lipton,
Either you are incredibly ill-informed or are an MEP participant advocating for a handout.
If the former, let me clue you in. The structure of the balloon loan principle repayment at the end of 30 or so years just screams ….. not-to-worry, we never really expected you to repay the “loan”.
It’s not a “loan”, it’s a Taxpayer bailout. MEP participants are entitled to no more than current PBGC MEP Regs calls for ……… and NOTHING additional from the Taxpayers.
Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on July 25, 2019 at 10:33 pm
If these pension funds fail the Pension Guaranty Corporation will be required to fund these pension, of course at lower levels, which would cost tax payers more than giving the pension funds low interest loans.
See Jim, this is the reason why your pension fund is only 20% funded and you want TAXPAYERS to bail you out, you have people like YOU running the fund and they have less intelligence than a 3rd grader in math. The Butch Lewis BAILOUT will never pass the Senate, even if it clears the House.
Posted by General (@Dillon45M) on July 25, 2019 at 12:28 am
MOOCHERS? Whom are you referring, the Police and Fireman once again? The same people who protects everyone, even jackasses like yourself?
Posted by E on July 25, 2019 at 6:56 am
Of course she is. She is a hater and a name caller. Doesn’t matter. She is right in one respect: she will be paying for our pensions whether she wants to or not. Unless she moves and she has indicated that she is here to stay for quite some time. Lucky us🤮
Posted by Tough Love on July 25, 2019 at 8:47 am
Hopefully, Taxpayers will find a way to NOT pay for at least half of your absurdly generous pensions & benefits.
Posted by stanley on July 25, 2019 at 10:17 am
” She is a hater and a name caller. Doesn’t matter. She is right in one respect: she will be paying for our pensions whether she wants to or not.”
F for analysis and conclusion. And, Constable, I have to counsel you on the importance of honesty and objectivity. What would you expect from the typical taxpayer not chowing down at the public trough? Hurt me some more, it feels so good? People aren’t generally pleased by pain. You should know that, being in law enforcement and all.
You say she will pay and I say you won’t collect or you’ll be extremely fortunate if you collect half the pension that you think you will collect. And when you catch on that I am correct on this you will also catch on that that acclaimed NJ education wasn’t all that it was cracked up to be.
It’s OK my friend that you don’t agree with me right now. You will, mark my words.
Posted by Tough Love on July 25, 2019 at 8:46 am
“MOOCHERS” applies to those Public Sector workers whose Unions colluded with our Elected Officials (via threats and the trading of BRIBES disguised as campaign contributions and election support in exchange for favorable votes on Public Sector pay, pensions, and benefits) to grant pensions that are 3 times (4 times for Police) greater in value upon retirement than those of comparably situated (in wages, years of service, and age at retirement) Private Sector workers. And who most often get free or heavily subsidized employer-provided retiree healthcare benefits that is all but unheard of in the Private Sector today.
Yes …………… they are MOOCHERS.
Posted by bpaterson on July 25, 2019 at 10:05 am
mooch is a little too harsh and means they are not deserving of anything which is really misguided- they worked and if no social security was set up, they need to get some sort of retirement payments. Although i tend to agree with you on the corrupted system that was in place the last 20 years to fully enrich special interests at the taxpayer expense, i would not go so far as the mooch word. Maybe “greedy collaborators” would describe them more appropriately for lack of a better single word.
Posted by Tough Love on July 25, 2019 at 10:36 am
I disagree on multiple counts……………
(1) Mooch doesn’t mean that they “not deserving of anything”, just that they deserve EQUAL but no more than what comparable Private Sector workers get from their employers ……. and right now, they are promised MULTIPLES more.
(2) Very few in NJ (only Police and likely paid FF) don’t participate in SS and at their higher wage level, SS is a very bad deal from a ROI standpoint. And …….. they also not contribute to SS.
Posted by E on July 25, 2019 at 10:56 am
Lol. I’m not worried Stanley. “Mark my words.” Like you’re some sort of guru. My pension will be paid. Mr doomsday. Why do you worry so much about the future? Just save some dough and you’ll be fine. Especially if your boy wins next year. The economy is and will continue to roar if he gets re elected, and he prob will. Libs moving way to far left for fencesitters. I think you’ll be ok Stanley. Maybe u won’t need to grill ball park franks on you’re charcoal grill w a meisty, screaming “but Constable!!!!” To no one in particular.
You can have a steak once and awhile.
And I think TL wants to get a room with you!!!🤢
You can don a banner that says “moocher” and let her beat you with a whip.
Ultimately, she will be disappointed though. You don’t sound like that much of a man.😐
Lol. That’s ok. She doesn’t sound like she would be that much fun either. Lol. Wet noodles all around.
Posted by Tough Love on July 25, 2019 at 6:54 pm
El gaupo,
What do you think ?
I know you like “moocher”, but how about commentator bpaterson’s suggestion ….. “greedy collaborators”?
Posted by E on July 25, 2019 at 7:06 pm
How about moochers on odd days and greedy collaborators on even days?
Posted by Anonymous on July 25, 2019 at 10:00 am
Vote stats: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/116-2019/h505
The R yes votes might be a tip off of how R senate votes might be in those states.
R vs D vs I in congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Us_senate_116th_congress.svg
There are 45 D’s in the senate. The 2 Is seem to be in D States so 47 votes. The R from Alaska voted yes so that might mean 2 R senators voting yes, bringing it to 49. I could imagine 2 Rs in great lakes states or Nebraska voting yes, but Alabama D could vote no.
Will Trump veto?
Posted by stanley on July 25, 2019 at 10:31 am
I believe that it depends on McConnell bringing it up. If it reaches a vote, it will pass and Trump will sign it into law. Has Trump vetoed anything?
Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on July 25, 2019 at 10:36 pm
There are 45 D’s in the senate. The 2 Is seem to be in D States so 47 votes.
Bernie is an Independent, but runs with the Dems….
Posted by Anonymous on July 25, 2019 at 11:06 am
Who in their right mind would loan money to insolveent pension funds? Oh, that would be you, the taxpayer: https://realinvestmentadvice.com/the-6-trillion-pension-bailout-is-coming/
Posted by MJ on July 25, 2019 at 1:42 pm
If it ends up passing, would it mean full retirement benefits for all moving forward or reforms for newer workers and small cuts for existing pensioners
What would it look like is what I want to know???
Posted by NJ2AZ on July 25, 2019 at 3:10 pm
at this point, I think a Logan’s Run style solution is inevitable…just set the age at 70 instead of 30.
maybe layer on a Soylent Green scenario so there’s some upside on the back end
Posted by NJ2AZ on July 25, 2019 at 3:16 pm
El Guapo good Sir,
I will gladly commit to funding your full pension until age 70, but then we get turn you into a wafer snack. deal? 🙂
Posted by E on July 25, 2019 at 4:54 pm
Lol. Can I get 85?
Posted by NJ2AZ on July 25, 2019 at 4:59 pm
no deal, but i promise not to serve you with something gross like guacamole.
reminds me of my grandma who loved that show Dinosaurs and used to joke we’d have to throw her in the tar pits when she turned 70 :D.
Posted by Tough Love on July 25, 2019 at 6:58 pm
Why?
If you plan on retiring at 50 or 55 (if you stay to 30 years) YOUR contributions (INCLUDING all investment return on those contributions) will only pay for 2 to 3 years , with the rest on the backs of the betrayed and beleaguered Taxpayers.
I’ll be generous and offer to match it on the long end …… your pension ends after collecting it for 6 years.
Posted by E on July 25, 2019 at 7:08 pm
But I don’t wanna be a wafer snack😕
Posted by How Sad on July 26, 2019 at 6:32 pm
Funny…”moochers”! People who have worked many years with a reduction in their pay to have the money available at the time of their retirement. I suppose if one were to loose all their money they had in a bank savings account because the bank went belly up and all they wanted is what was theirs to begin with, they would be “moochers” as well. If someone came to you and said they are taking your house, bank account, car., or whatever and even though you made your payments, it was going happen, it wasn’t your fault, it was just going to happen, …….how would you feel? Sorry, no loans, no help, and no hope, just suck it up and don’t expect to be a moocher!!!
Seems to me it is easy enough to bailout big corporations and billionaires, but the working class should just take a beating and not ask for help.
If you knew anything of what is going on you would realize that the government played a part in what has happened. And these very “moochers” you talk about are tax payers, give them poverty level income, less goes into spending and taxes, so you end up with a snowball effect.
Utimately, if you get it your way, you will indeed pay many times over from the trickle down effect on the over all economy. But hey, that would be Karma for you in the end to pay for food and health care for the those terrible moochers that only wanted what they paid for. You know, those awful poeple that wanted to sustain their independence and not be forced into loosing everything they have, and apply for government assistance.
I suppose you think they should end social security income as well. You paid in to the system, but that’s okay, you shouldn’t be a “moocher” and expect to get anything out of it.
If it makes you feel good to resort to name calling of hard working people who are also Veterans, etc., Then so be it. How sad!
Posted by Tough Love on July 26, 2019 at 9:33 pm
Quoting …………..
” People who have worked many years with a reduction in their pay to have the money available at the time of their retirement.”
Oh hogwash. A very common claim of Union-workers, but when we add “wages” + “pensions” + “benefits” to get “Total Compensation”, what we find is that is is always MUCH greater in the Public (than Private) Sector.
Any lower wages is overwhelmed by the VASTLY superior (and hence COSTLY) Public Sector pensions and benefits.
It’s not a “shift” of money (for retirement), but ADDITIONAL money.
—————————————-
Quoting ………………….
“But hey, that would be Karma for you in the end to pay for food and health care for the those terrible moochers that only wanted what they paid for.”
What …… “they paid for” ?
Are you serious. Actual Public Sector worker pension contributions (INCLUDING all the investment earnings thereon) rarely accumulate to a sum upon retirement sufficient to buy more than 10% to 20% of their VERY VERY generous pensions ……… with Taxpayer contributions and the investment earnings thereon responsible for the 80% to 90% balance.
And they pay little or NOTHING for retiree healthcare benefits unheard of in the Private Sector.
So no, they didn’t “pay for it”. In fact they paid for only a VERY small share of the total cost.
Posted by Anonymous on December 10, 2019 at 2:09 am
lady your full of crap as a union worker I sat in those meeting and voted for more money instead of pay to go into pensions. AND IF CONGRESS WOULD HAVE NOT PASSED NAPHTA AND TRUNK DEREGULATION OUR PENSIONS WOULD STILL BE STRONG TODAY. ALSO AT 1 TIME OUR PENIONS WERE 120 PERCENT FUNDED BUT BECUASE OF THE ERSIA LAW THAT CONGRESS SET UP ON THESE PENSIONS THEY MADE THEM GIVE OUT HIGHER PENSIONS.
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Posted by gary anderson on September 25, 2019 at 7:01 pm
God save our elders, they can’t work anymore, and this is a hard culture.