Peeking at NJ Pensions

The pension crisis in New Jersey some mentions this past week, if not serious discussion in part because:

Here are a couple of things that New Jersey public television was paid to report on:

This was something previously reported on here but it was good to see the one minute of coverage.

Also, Reporters Roundtable noted the massive increases in pension payments that localities will be forced to make:

For many it will be 25% increases and though no solutions were offered it was good to get the three minutes of coverage.

32 responses to this post.

  1. Granting a union the power of a taxing authority is madness. But there you have it.


  2. Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on December 16, 2020 at 11:10 am

    Same scheme that Twitter and Facebook gamed the Presidential election. Just manipulation via back deal pay offs.


    • Posted by MJF on December 16, 2020 at 2:27 pm

      Hey Rexie if you have not already, check out the Danish National Orchestra rendition of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Pretty cool. OOOOPS Off Topic.


      • Posted by NJ2AZ on December 16, 2020 at 3:55 pm

        I prefer their For a Few Dollars More rendition!

        my favorite movie of the ‘trilogy’


        • Posted by MJF on December 16, 2020 at 4:10 pm

          Nice Rex I had not seen that, Thank you


          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on December 16, 2020 at 7:12 pm

            Both versions are fantastic, but the theme is one of the best of all time 💖


          • Posted by NJ2AZ on December 16, 2020 at 8:12 pm

            this blog now about pensions and bitchin ass westerns and their music


          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on December 17, 2020 at 7:39 pm

            Awesome clip NJ2AZ! Henry looks GRE+AT in the clip-so young….🐾

            Here is a really great old spaghetti western I LOVE, it stars Herny!
            “My Name Is Nobody” 🤣


        • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on December 16, 2020 at 7:15 pm

          LOL, the thumbnail has the Conductor holding a Winchester/Henry repeating rifle ✔👍


          • Posted by MJF on December 16, 2020 at 9:24 pm

            “Deserves got nothin to do with it”. Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven.
            Better stop Rex we’ll get booted from this blog. Just trying to lighten things up a bit.


  3. Posted by geo8rge on December 16, 2020 at 4:51 pm

    At the end of the second video: “There is a deal to put caps on the state tax incentive programs.” NJ can’t seem to keep a cookie factory in Fair Lawn, so good luck capping tax incentives. I don’t know why they think they get to choose what they charge in taxes, they think the only reason taxes aren’t more is they are nice guys?

    @1:05 A curiosity is they also claim property tax increases are capped at 2%. Does that mean the covenants offering taxes on real property in Murphy’s bonds are capped somehow? He also seems to think local governments can set property taxes as high as they like and could be much higher but for the local governments being nice guys.


    • There are a lot things outside the cap with increases in pension payments and debt included according to this NYT story from 2010:

      which said:
      “The new law exempts cost increases for health care, pensions, debt service, states of emergency and increased school enrollment. ”

      Union County routinely borrows whatever it needs:

      Meaning that property taxes will go up massively even with the cap (which incidentally Murphy and his democrats could get rid of if were so inclined).


      • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on December 16, 2020 at 7:18 pm

        Union County routinely borrows whatever it needs:

        Why responsibly pay debt today that you can irresponsibly kick down the road to tomorrow? With no personal or professional liability or repercussions?


      • Posted by PS Drone on December 16, 2020 at 11:14 pm

        Yeah, I always loved that. “We are capping property tax increases to 2% – excluding of course all of those reasons that make our revenue demands go up – like pensions, health insurance premiums, emergencies and more students” (particularly those coming from rent subsidized, low income households forced upon municipalities so that the state could escape paying the freight). NJ continues to be a major league joke in terms of the bullshit it feeds its put upon citizenry. Can’t wait to exit stage left.


  4. Posted by MJF on December 16, 2020 at 4:57 pm

    Yeah who knows but they are out of control.


    • Posted by Tough Love on December 16, 2020 at 7:42 pm

      NECESSARY elements of any/every comprehensive “solution” to the financial mess NJ is now in ………..

      (a) Hard Freeze ALL Public Sector DB pensions (zero future growth). Replace them for the future service of all new AND CURRENT workers with a 401k-style DC Plan with a Taxpayer contribution comparable to what Private Sector workers most often get from their employers (about 4%-of-pay and no more).

      (b) VERY few Private Sector workers get ANY employer-provided subsidy towards retiree healthcare benefits, and as such, there is no justification for Taxpayers to be forced to pay for a benefit that they VERY rarely get. ALL Taxpayer-paid-for Public Sector retiree healthcare subsidies should be phased out (to ZERO) over NO MORE THAN 5 years.

      And to be “fair” …………. because proper Public/Private Sector compensation comparisons SHOULD BE made by comparing “Total Compensation” (wages + pensions + benefits), IF Public Sector wages are lower (higher) than those in comparable Private Sector jobs (after adjusting for hours worked in the year) Public Sector wages should be raised (reduced) to eliminate that differential.

      EQUAL, but not better ………… on the Taxpayers’ dime.


      • Posted by El Gaupo’s friend aka an independent third party. on December 17, 2020 at 8:03 am

        Except for your good buddy tho right? Since he has over 25 on and is such a good guy who thouroghly has nothing but the utmost respect for TL at all times, we can make an exception for that wonderful man. I just heard him saying the other day how TL was one of his favorites. And leaps and bounds a better person than all on here and how graced he was by her presence. He is an inspiration to all. As is she for that matter. 😉


        • Posted by Tough Love on December 17, 2020 at 8:57 am

          OMG ……….. get a grip !


          • Hey, that’s an independent third party there. I can’t tell him what to say or not say🤷‍♂️
            lol. Btw….did you get plowed in? Or did you do your counter maneuvers?


          • Posted by Tough Love on December 17, 2020 at 3:10 pm

            I didn’t park in front of the driveway last night (no point since it was already snowed-in),

            They came in the middle of the night ……. only minor snow in front of the driveway. Very pleased.


          • I put in a good word for you. 😉


      • Public and private pay are determined by entirely different factors. To make these comparisons you would need one of these, and more data than you can imagine.

        Argonne National Laboratory Supercomputer

        You may have to settle for EQUAL +/- 10%.


        • Posted by Anonymous on December 17, 2020 at 4:44 pm

          Well said Mr. Obfuscation. Your only true redeeming feature.


        • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on December 17, 2020 at 8:18 pm

          Public and private pay are determined by entirely different factors.
          Shit Dougiee, HOW many times are you going to post BS/WRONG info here??? Public and private pay are determined by the exact same thing here in America as every other place on planet earth, by ONLY TWO factors; 1) supply; and 2) demand. That is it Baby Einstein. A GED Gov firewhner job ca be performed by 90%-99% of America. It is an unskilled GED job that gets OTJ training. Yet pays out $200K before any OT is added in and gifts out 30-40 days/4-8 weeks of PAID time off. There are 5,000+++ applicants for each open position. So take your BS and go on a long vacation …. 😎


  5. Posted by Tough Love on December 17, 2020 at 5:04 pm

    Quoting ……………

    “Public and private pay are determined by entirely different factors. ”

    Indeed they are………..

    In the Private Sector MANAGEMENT calls all the shots, meaning we’ll pay “enough” to attract and keep the talent the business needs but no more than “necessary” because WE (the Company) pay for all compensation costs, and we do not have the ability to just pass along higher costs to our customers w/o losing business.

    In the Public Sector, the UNIONS call all the shots …… by threatening to work against Elected Official’s re-elections if the don’t play along, or bribing Elected Officials with campaign contributions if they do play along. And while I understand it’s the Union’s job to get the best deal for their members, our self-interested Elected Official’s rarely give a crap about the CAPTIVE Taxpayers.


  6. Seriously, check out Katz and Krueger, it’s not rocket science.

    Changes in the Structure of Wages in the Public and Private Sectors

    Click to access 282.pdf


    • Posted by Tough Love on December 18, 2020 at 12:52 am

      Holy cow …………………… you bitch when I reference Dr, Biggs study which goes back about 10 years, and then you reference a paper from 1991 that is based on data from the 1970’s and 1980’s ………… per it’s Abstract..


  7. You sound like the dog now. Katz is history of how compensation changes occurred. Including the wage compression of public salaries relative to private. Biggs is data that is 8-12 years stale. Apples and oranges, sir.

    It might be to difficult for you.


    • Posted by Tough Love on December 18, 2020 at 7:59 pm

      Yeah history …………. from 40 to 50 years ago …….

      Heck. what were you at that time, an apprentice light-bulb-changer ? Is it a 4-year apprenticeship to Journeyman status ?


  8. By the time I left the Navy (51 years ago as of Dec. 31) I was a Master Electrician.

    ‘In contrast to a journeyman electrician, a master electrician is certified to supervise other electricians, own a private business or work as a licensed contractor. Wiring, replacing breakers, designing electrical plans for a new home, installing lighting fixtures and servicing electrical appliances fall under the job description of an electrician. Interpreting blueprints and diagrams are also an important part of an electrician’s job. Advanced work, often for commercial construction jobs, includes using software for project management, following and enforcing Occupational Safety and Health Administration guidelines, and driving forklifts and other large machines. Since master electricians are often leading a team of other electricians, leadership and management skills are critical.”

    Join the Navy, see the world!


    Yes, I remember the 70s well.


    • And yes, I can operate a forklift.


      • Posted by Tough Love on December 19, 2020 at 5:25 pm

        An Electrician’s wage ……….. to change light bulbs? Great us of Public Funds (but not surprising).

        Only in the Public Sector ……….. you know like $125/hr Police to sit all day in a Patrol Car (doing little but looking at their cell phones) at construction sites in NJ


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