PERS (Local) Depletion Date

The Public Employees’ Retirement System (PERS) local part using valuation report exhibits show depletion in 2038 without any substantial benefit cuts as cash infusions come primarily from localities and, based on my experience, very few at the local level have the wherewithal or inclination to do anything about cutting taxes so these contributions could continue. Based on projecting historical data:

As with the PFRS plan for local employees the depletion date of the PERS for local employees seems far off but there are two factors that may get the plans there quicker:

  1. Those projected contributions may not materialize as earlier this century there were no contributions for a few years on account of a purported overfunding and in 2009 localities were allowed to defer payments to deal with what passed for a financial crisis back then. With revenue from property taxes likely to decline over the next few years the simplest form of ‘relief’ for local budgets would be more contribution holidays.
  2.  As the other plans run out of money on paper the temptation will be to shift money within the system. This won’t be necessary (or noticed) with the JRS plan in a couple of years as the state should be able to scrape up that $50 million pay-go amount but where else will the $5 billion be coming from for the Teachers plan in 2024?

61 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Tough Love on May 13, 2020 at 9:43 pm

    Yup THAT (when the Teachers Plan run out of assets …. or gets close to it) when the SH** hits the fan ……….. and our gutless Elected Officials MUST make some TOUGH choices.

    Reply

    • Posted by E on May 13, 2020 at 10:40 pm

      See the difference when the employer makes the contributions required? Pfrs local would have the same or later depletion date if bury had used increasing contributions after 2020 like he did here. This plan (pers) will also benefit from almost no politicians left in it as well as a 65 yr retirement age. The local pfrs and pers plans should last for quite some time. A more accurate drop dead date is In the ‘50s. Pfrs offers its retirees a more generous allowance and at an earlier age. Next to the judges, it is the best as well it should be. The teachers plan is f**ed. Much more $$ was in it over a decade ago. Now you see why S5 offers much more protection than the other plans. Will pers merge with the teachers plan to try to save it? Commingled with path to progress? Anybody’s guess. None of this will be happening until after the 2021 gov election. By then will we have weed, as well as sports gambling? Anybody’s guess again. This summer and fall will be trump and the virus. Fauci is sounding the warning bell. Nobody seems to be listening. I hope he is wrong. Something tells me he is dead on. I’ll take the word of the best infectious disease doc over the libertarian ophthalmologist from KY. Lose the beard Rand. You look like an idiot.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 12:01 am

        Quoting …………..

        “Pfrs offers its retirees a more generous allowance and at an earlier age. Next to the judges, it is the best as well it should be.”

        Oh please ………… NEITHER Plan should be granting anywhere near what they now do. Do so is nothing but an outrageous abuse of the Taxpayers.
        ——————————————————-

        Quoting …………..

        ” I’ll take the word of the best infectious disease doc over the libertarian ophthalmologist from KY. ”

        And how about over the word of the “stable genius” ?

        Reply

        • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 6:29 am

          I like your restraint TL. We are evolving.
          Did you see WI? The court just opened the state (except schools) back up. Including concert halls. A 4-3 vote along party lines. 1 republican joined 2 dems voting to keep it temp closed. So they went from “planning to open” to “open” immediately.
          Wait till their neighbors in MI see that decision.
          Either we will kick this thing/it’ll go away like Trump says, or we will see it spread again and be where we were 2 months ago in those places. I hope the first, but feel that this decision will make this take that much longer and cost more lives until the vaccine is here.
          Bars have started to open etc. 🤷‍♂️
          I can see a opening that involves distancing etc to the best degree possible. But hundreds in a concert or bar? At this point foolish.

          Reply

      • Posted by A on May 14, 2020 at 5:02 am

        “I was surprised by his answer, actually,” Trump said. “It’s just — to me it’s not an acceptable answer, especially when it comes to schools.”

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 8:42 am

          More from that article……………..

          President Donald Trump’s repudiation of Dr. Anthony Fauci has long been probable. Once the trusted doctor warned of the human cost of Trump’s push to quickly reopen the country, it became inevitable.

          Trump broke with Fauci, who has served under six presidents, on Wednesday over the infectious disease expert’s warnings that getting businesses and schools back open too quickly would lead to unnecessary suffering and death.

          “I was surprised by his answer, actually,” Trump said. “It’s just — to me it’s not an acceptable answer, especially when it comes to schools.”

          The delicate dynamic between Fauci and Trump has been watched for months. Its latest fraying marks the most pronounced clash yet in the tussle between science and politics that has long plagued the administration’s fight against the coronavirus.

          Fauci’s transgression is to base his evaluations — after decades of public service and expertise fighting HIV/AIDS, Ebola, Zika and anthrax — on facts and logic that conflict with Trump’s chosen version of reality. Fauci has long said that only the virus can decide when normal life — things such as NFL games and schools reopening, for instance — will be safe again.

          Trump has always been battling the pandemic he wants to fight, rather than the one that actually exists, with a strategy shaped mostly by his political requirements as he seeks a second term. The pandemic arrived in the US despite his insistence that it would not be a problem. Now, with 84,000 Americans dead and 1.3 million infected, Trump argues that the country has prevailed over the virus and it’s time to get back to work.

          Trump calls Fauci’s caution on schools reopening ‘not an acceptable answer’
          He has yet to initiate a serious national conversation about the vital need to get the economy firing again balanced against the level of death and illness that is acceptable to the country given that the pandemic could worsen if states open up too quickly.

          Ironically, another of Trump’s failings, one in which Fauci may be in some ways complicit as a member of the coronavirus task force — to stand up a comprehensive national testing and tracking system — may frustrate the President’s effort to get the country up and running quickly with no vaccine in sight.

          Trump’s swipe at Fauci comes as CNN reported that the White House is questioning whether the Covid-19 death toll is being exaggerated in official statistics. In fact, Fauci said Tuesday that the murderous impact of the virus was likely being undercounted. It would not be the first time that a President with a historic disrespect for facts is ready to twist data so that it fits his political needs. Science was long ago rejected as a basis for the administration’s environmental and energy policy.

          *******************************************************

          “stable genius” or incompetent, untrustworthy, and dangerous buffoon ?

          Reply

          • Posted by bpaterson on May 14, 2020 at 11:39 am

            as the basically total shutdown of the economy drags on, it will inevitably lead to increase in crime and possibly rioting from those with no more financial resources. Sadly Trump makes sense to get all open and running again without playing politics. His school idea is probably his first lever. Trump plays odds shrewdly.

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 3:29 pm

            I believe that Trump cares about nothing and nobody except himself and how he is perceived by others. Hence his “need” to be re-elected, seeing not-being re-elected as a huge stain on his legacy/ego.

      • Posted by geo8rge on May 14, 2020 at 7:45 am

        “I’ll take the word of the best infectious disease doc ”

        Born 1940 he’s too old for the job. What was he doing in October when this was starting? He is probably an OK bureaucrat but was not really on top of things.

        He first appears in Google Trends mid February.
        https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=fauci&geo=US

        Reply

        • Posted by NJ2AZ on May 14, 2020 at 11:53 am

          I think there’s an argument to be made that people have gone from “We should listen to the doctors” to “we should only listen to the doctors!”

          The doctors are qualified to opine on the spread and immediate effects of the virus. they are not qualified to consider the toll the response to stopping the virus might take, and to shut down any conversation about that with things like “You want to kill grandma!” is not helping anyone

          Reply

  2. Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 8:27 am

    As far as I knew there is no seperate fund for pers local and state. It’s all one fund. Am I wrong about that ?

    Reply

    • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 10:28 am

      No. You’re correct.

      Reply

      • Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 10:42 am

        E- So then based on that what is the actual suspected end date for the whole fund. I ask because my wife is in it.

        Reply

        • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 12:52 pm

          Not sure. But I think the state end of it drags our side down a couple percentage points. Not that much but a little bit.
          I think corrections guys get their pension out of PFRS combined. But then again, why then even split it up other than to show how many of them work for the state.

          Reply

  3. Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 9:31 am

    Off Topic ………… new rules from Gov Murphy covering the cost of COVID-19 testing:

    https://www.insidernj.com/press-release/governor-murphy-announces-departmental-actions-increase-insurance-coverage-cover-expanded-testing-access-covid-19/

    One paragraph seems problematic, quoting:

    “The guidance also requires that services provided to an individual during a visit that results in a test being ordered or administered, are also covered without any out-of-pocket costs to the policyholder.”

    What if you are seeing the doctor for regular medical reasons (sometimes quite expensive) unrelated to COVID-19, and the doctor agrees to administer or order a COVID-19 test? All of a sudden, you have no out-of-pocket on ALL of the costs of the visit? That comes out of the Doctor’s income.

    Reply

  4. Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 10:06 am

    Off Topic- https://www.tapinto.net/articles/nj-gov-murphy-approval-ratings-soar-in-latest-rutgers-eagleton-poll

    Meanwhile NJ Senate Republicans want an investigation in to Murphy’s response to COVID-19. Did they not see these poll numbers ?

    Reply

    • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 10:40 am

      That’s because as much as we want to get back to work, we realize that he is actually listening to folks who are smarter than he is when it comes to Covid.
      Even Declan OScanlon who always finds fault w Murphy ,(and would in a HEARTBEAT take away Marine1 and my pensions) believes Murphy has best interests of the state at heart. And I hate oscanlon about as much as I do Christie. Many many cops in this state who are conservatives on the federal level as am I, have abandoned the GOP here in NJ because of Christie. Lots of GOP don’t like that and tried to make up with by approving S5 completely along w the dems.

      Reply

  5. Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 10:55 am

    https://www.juneauempire.com/news/starved-for-recruits-alaska-police-pin-blame-on-retirement-system/

    TL. I found another dept aside from Sandy springs that has severe retention problems. Look what happened when they took the DB pension away. I know you feel otherwise and we disagree, but I definitely think the salaries would need to be raised quite a bit to keep people working in law enforcement for 25-30 years in the event of a universal end to DB nationwide.
    Marine1–Care to weigh on this? Would your turnover in your dept increase if in fact PFRS was no longer offered to new and younger officers?

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 11:32 am

      Police salaries would indeed have to be greater for new workers, and with a shorter grade-in period to full patrolman scale. But while I know it can (and does) vary widely, experienced Officer WAGES (alone) are more than sufficient in a lot of places (such as in most of NJ), even if their DB pensions were replaced with a very modest DC Plan (AND far less generous healthcare benefits).

      Reply

    • Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 11:32 am

      E- I think there would always have to be some kind of enhanced benefit for LE or people wouldn’t do the job. If you could get the same benefit package as the guy who works at MVC why not just do that ? No shift work,no risk of getting hurt,much less responsibility.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 11:51 am

        The experienced guy/gal who works at the NJ MVC likely makes … in wages alone ……. about half (or less) that the experienced NJ LEO.

        Experienced LEO wages are up their with established Tech workers. Yes, the risks and skills are far different, but in my opinion, the tech-worker skills are much more difficult to master (and stay current) ……… and let’s not get into the MATERIAL incremental value of far greater job security in the Public Sector.

        Reply

        • Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 12:01 pm

          TL- Tech worker is currently home collecting a check. Police Officer is working on street going to calls during a pandemic. Who do we need more ? Hypothetically can you survive without police ? I know I can survive without the tech guy. I say it all the time,but it always comes out as true. The same jobs that were important in Roman Times are important during this pandemic.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 12:21 pm

            Mostly wrong, as tech workers are uniquely situated to work from home. I know quite a few ……….. ALL of whom are now working full-time form home.

            I wasn’t addressing who is needed more or essential at this time, just your wage comparison with an MVC worker, and apparently not acknowledging that experienced LEOs in NJ are VERY well paid in wages alone.

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 12:22 pm

            There goes my spot on the ARCs crow’s nest …………. lol

          • Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 12:31 pm

            TL- Nah,you’re good still.

          • Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 12:38 pm

            TL- The salary for LE is very good,but it has to be. Outside of doctor what job has more liability assigned to it ? I honestly can’t think of anything.

          • Posted by NJ2AZ on May 14, 2020 at 12:38 pm

            I’d say the same evaluation of comp applies to the police as applies mostly anywhere else:

            If a particular department is always fully staffed, and has to beat back applicants with a stick when an opening occurs, the compensation is probably excessive.
            If they are perpetually understaffed, the compensation is too low. I have said the same thing regarding teacher pay.

            As simple as that. no need to compare to ‘similar’ roles in the private sector (if such things even exist) or what’s fair and just so i can slip this quote in: “Deserves got nothing to do with it”. Each job has its own ‘market’.

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 12:55 pm

            Marine1,

            I was under the impression that (at least in NJ) an LEO is (just about*) never held personally liable for Civil damages, always being covered by their employer (meaning primarily the employer’s insurer). Am I wrong ?

            * not sure if proven “gross negligence” changes that.

            ——————-

            Where you indeed have liability issues is on the criminal side, when Police conduct is questioned. While there are plenty of cases where the Officer has gone off-the-rails and deserves punishment, I believe most are far less clear. And while your Union will back you (even when clearly in the wrong), sometimes the politicians won’t, even when you are in-the-right………. and that’s a big problem.

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 6:50 pm

            NJ2AZ,

            Your analysis (that compensation for each job is determined by IT’S market, and what they “deserve” is not relevant), is VERY true in the Private Sector BECUASE employers freely compete for talent unencumbered by the distortions commonplace in Public Sector employment.

            When a Public Sector worker’s Union contributes to the campaigns of the Elected Officials who determine their compensation, we are NOT dealing with TRUE “market rate” compensation ……. but what money (that I call bribes) can BUY.

  6. Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 1:00 pm

    And the legislators also know the tech guy will be MIA when either Antifa comes for the GOP or the militia comes for the dems. The is a premium to be paid for that kind of protection that smart people know needs to be paid.
    As Mary Pat states….it is a teeny weeny part of the budget. 😉

    Reply

    • Posted by NJ2AZ on May 14, 2020 at 1:19 pm

      what about us tech workers who are also armed to the teeth? 🙂 (granted we are a rare breed)

      Reply

    • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 1:21 pm

      At TL, in general we enjoy qualified immunity if we make an honest mistake. The big exception is domestic violence. We can(doesn’t mean we will) be held civilly liable for failure to act in a DV even if it is just an honest mistake. As Marine1 will tell you, outside of just a minor verbal argument, someone WILL be walking out in cuffs on a DV call. If we are on duty and commit a “tort” while in uniform…I.e slandering someone at a basketball game in the high school gym, demeanor unrelated to a call. We would face administrative IA charges and could be civilly sued as it did not relate to our job. The town may still be on the hook for failure to supervise and train. It all comes back to…you need to hire qualified people. It is a demanding job psychologically speaking which is why there are many steps to getting hired.
      But kidding aside, there is no job that requires an individual to make a split second decision that may kill someone. While at the same time possibly facing death yourself if you make the wrong decision. In that ultimate decision, a doc may lose a patient if he makes the wrong decision but he is guaranteed NOT to be killed himself as part of his decision making.
      Out of four outcomes:
      1) officer hesitates and is correct— no threat existed. (Best outcome)
      2) officer hesitated and is dead (worst)
      3) officer shoots and is justified killing someone (ok except for the bad guy)
      4) officer shoots and is wrong (second worst outcome) jail, loss of job etc.
      there is a premium to be paid for that sort of responsibility that literally no one else shares.
      Not firemen, doctors, lawyers, finance folks, no one. Except the military.

      Marine1 and I are NOT looking for special accolades or anything more than a thank you and some mutual respect both ways. We both firmly believe that the system in place adequately compensates us. Alaska’s package didn’t and we saw what happened.
      And we both firmly believe you belong on the ark and in general support the police. 😉

      Reply

      • Posted by NJ2AZ on May 14, 2020 at 1:54 pm

        Respectfully E, depending on the nuance of each situation i have ‘officer shoots and is wrong’ as the worst outcome.

        Outcomes it terms of being a problem for me as a citizen (from least concern to most)
        1. Dead Criminals
        HUGE CHASM
        2. Dead cops
        3. Dead Innocents

        Though i’m talking about the extremely rare instances like Justine Diamond or Philando Castile, not “innocent” like charging a cop after trying to take his gun Michael Brown

        Reply

        • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 3:15 pm

          I was talking from the officers perspective who actually had to make the decision him/herself

          Reply

      • Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 2:46 pm

        E- +1
        TL is still on the Ark. After years of debate with TL it’s become clear that she has no real dislike of Police but just doesn’t like the fact that they have a far better retirement than those that pay the salary. I understand,but it comes back to when has life ever been fair ? I want the same pension as the Superior Court Judge,guess what I’m not getting it and never will. At some point we simply have to accept life isn’t equal or fair. It never has been.

        Reply

        • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 3:17 pm

          Hey, i always wanted to play center field for the Yankees when i was a kid. Didn’t quite get there

          Reply

          • Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 4:59 pm

            E- I wanted to be a pro wrestler. George The Animal Steele was my hero.

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on May 15, 2020 at 3:27 pm

            Hey, i always wanted to play center field for the Yankees when i was a kid. Didn’t quite get there
            My kiddies T-Ball League starts in a month, we will keep a slot open for you and your baseball skills EG.

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on May 18, 2020 at 4:12 pm

            E- I wanted to be a pro wrestler. George The Animal Steele was my hero.
            Hated “Pro Wrasslin”, until I saw Roddy Piper, he was the funniest and most entertaining “wrassler” of all time, one of the best entertainers of all time….

        • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on May 15, 2020 at 3:25 pm

          I want the same pension as the Superior Court Judge,guess what I’m not getting it and never will.
          A Superior Court Judge has a job that REQUIRES SEVEN (7) years of college, including THREE (3) that are post baccalaureate, AND TEN (10) years of prior legal experience. You have a job that requires a big bad GED and NO prior experience. Does that help you Marine1? See the difference?? And the fact is in total compensation you actually make more because you get OT and retire decades earlier.

          Reply

          • Posted by Marine1 on May 15, 2020 at 7:16 pm

            Rex- It was actually pretty refreshing when you were no where to be found on here for several days. The adults were actually speaking civilly something we have all been mindful of with the exception of you.

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on May 18, 2020 at 4:10 pm

            Rex- It was actually pretty refreshing when you were no where to be found on here for several days. The adults were actually speaking civilly something we have all been mindful of with the exception of you.
            You made me CRY Marine1 🙂

            But that is the truth, and you know it! I am just the messenger, don’t hate me for bringing a truthful message.

      • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 6:57 pm

        Quoting ……….

        “If we are on duty and commit a “tort” while in uniform…I.e slandering someone at a basketball game in the high school gym, demeanor unrelated to a call. We would face administrative IA charges and could be civilly sued as it did not relate to our job.”

        Sounds very similar to what might happen (wrt Civil Liability) to a Private Sector workers slandered someone.
        —————————

        FWIW, I have always supported our Police ……… but still advocate to reduce the “platinum+” healthcare benefits and (for future service), pensions that I feel are WAY too generous/costly.

        Reply

        • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 7:32 pm

          I know you have. But I think even more so recently with the pleasant dialogue w both Marine1 and I.
          So much more respect and understanding flies when I don’t curse and you don’t call us moochers and post screwups by officers or say “in the real world”. Lol. If you notice the f u pay me(s) have also stopped or at least dramatically slowed. Growth on both sides 👍

          Reply

  7. Posted by A on May 14, 2020 at 1:37 pm

    What about, twenty and out?

    https://nj1015.com/lawmakers-move-to-expand-early-pension-benefit-for-police-fire/

    It is apparently still here, in the military and in various police and fire jurisdictions.

    Surprised I can’t find recent studies on the advantages and disadvantages. The most complete discussion I have seen is the Hook Commission dozens of years ago. Bottom line then was, justification of early retirement was for the benefit of the employer, not the worker/retiree.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on May 14, 2020 at 7:30 pm

      A NJ Police Officer would have to be NUTS to leave at 20 years ……… with a much lower pension multiplier, and no retiree healthcare vs leaving at 25 years with FREE retiree healthcare and 65% of final wages.

      Lol …………. Unless they or the spouse hit the lottery.

      Reply

      • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 7:35 pm

        I agree. I know of only a small handful. Prob in depts that didn’t have medical after retirement or perhaps married to a cop. I know a female who had young kids when she hit 20. Husband was a cop and she decided to retire then. Otherwise, absent financial security outside of the job, it is NUTS!! Very very few take that offer.

        Reply

      • Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 7:38 pm

        TL- I have known a handful of guys that have done it. One guy had a wealthy wife,but the rest had discipline issues. I’m sure that isn’t always the case but that has been what I saw mostly. One guy was lucky he could get that,should have been terminated. The rest of the guys were just on the shit list,couldn’t deal with 5 more years of “harrassment” just left with 20.

        Reply

  8. Posted by Marine1 on May 14, 2020 at 2:53 pm

    Off Topic- Isn’t the Legislature voting on the furloughs today ? Something like 100,000 employees local/state.

    Reply

  9. Posted by PS Drone on May 14, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    I love the dialogue on here. No concept of the future economic reality that is going to unfold for all of us. The US dollar is going (already about 3% of its worth when the Federal Reserve was established in 1913) to become virtually worthless. So get ready to enjoy your 6 figure pensions that will buy about 1/4 or less of what they do today. State and local revenues will be tanked for years. Services and public sector payrolls will be slashed. Yes, taxes will rise to ridiculous levels, but the seemingly endless success of the financialization of the US will come crashing down. Good luck.

    Reply

    • Posted by E on May 14, 2020 at 10:44 pm

      After putting six kids through college, my friend, you have more than earned the right to post your opinion and have it treated respectfully on here. ✌️
      That is VERY impressive.
      PS +1

      Reply

      • Posted by Marine1 on May 15, 2020 at 7:23 am

        E & Drone- I agree. Six children through college is a monumental task. Drone is the man.

        Reply

        • Posted by PS Drone on May 15, 2020 at 8:26 am

          Thanks for the kudos E and M. You know I only have respect for LEO. However, as a defrocked CPA, I have some experience with actuarial issues. And that is my problem with public sector pensions. One needs to work 40 to 50 years and retire for 10 to 20. Not work for 30 and retire for 35 making more retired than they did for most of their working life. And a pension should be a pension, not a lottery winning.

          Reply

          • Posted by Marine1 on May 15, 2020 at 10:48 am

            Drone- I understand,but you know we didn’t establish the system and I probably attended two union meetings in 25 years. I just went to work each day. As far as worrying about the future you learn pretty quick in boot camp to prepare for things to the best of your ability, but not dwell on things you have no control over.

          • Posted by PS Drone on May 15, 2020 at 2:21 pm

            My crude take on “how we got here” is as follows. LEO (and to a lesser degree, the military) were woefully underpaid until the late 70’s. Then, over a number of years, current compensation of both were significantly increased to reflect the declining operating environments (more dangerous) and improve the working life standard of living. The “problem” came about because the pension formulas were not changed to reflect the dramatic improvement in current compensation. And, of course, the public sector, particularly the sponsors and mentors at the top, did not publicize the impact of this to the DF taxpayers. So the attraction theory of deferred compensation (to keep valuable employees on the job for 20, 25 or 30 years), which was put in place to make up for the poor current compensation, became the lottery windfalls that we see today. Fire chiefs retiring on a $250K (or more) pension? University professors getting $500K? Totally ridiculous.

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on May 15, 2020 at 3:42 pm

            EO (and to a lesser degree, the military) were woefully underpaid until the late 70’s. Then, over a number of years, current compensation of both were significantly increased to reflect the declining operating environments (more dangerous) and improve the working life standard of living…Fire chiefs retiring on a $250K (or more) pension? University professors getting $500K? Totally ridiculous.
            LEO may have been underpaid in the 1970’s. But not in the 1980’s and forward. And Firewhiner has NEVER been underpaid. LEO in CA were paid well above the median, and far above mean, compensation in the 1980’s. They were making $60K/year in the early 1980’s and that was probably double the median and well above the mean CA compensation. That was not 1%er status back then either. In the 1980’s cop and FF made the same, FF slightly more with OT, as the average journeyman trade workers (framer/roofer/dry waller etc). Gov comp exploded in the 1990’s, and went bonzo krazee in the 2,000’s. The fact is ALL gov jobs today pay FAR more than anything they could possible get in real life. The exceptions would be highly skilled Professionals like surgeons, but even those are suspect today. And BTW, a Gov “Lawyer” and “General Practitioner Doctor” are NOT “highly skilled professionals”. The average Gov Clinic Doctor, average DA, average “Judge” makes far more in Gov than they would in the private sector.

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on May 24, 2020 at 7:15 pm

            One needs to work 40 to 50 years and retire for 10 to 20. Not work for 30 and retire for 35 making more retired than they did for most of their working life. And a pension should be a pension, not a lottery winning.
            Well said.

    • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on May 15, 2020 at 3:45 pm

      No concept of the future economic reality that is going to unfold for all of us. The US dollar is going (already about 3% of its worth when the Federal Reserve was established in 1913) to become virtually worthless
      This is a video that is on point, just came out 2 days ago…

      Reply

      • Posted by PS Drone on May 15, 2020 at 6:39 pm

        Gold won’t make you rich, but it will allow you to keep the wealth you have. An economy based on constantly borrowing more and more $ to pretend you have “growth” when all you are doing is growing the national debt cannot work forever. We have now officially gone off the deep end and the end of our delusion of national wealth is fast approaching.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on May 15, 2020 at 7:52 pm

          lol ………….. another $3 Trillion stimulus bill from the House is now on the table. Thankfully, the Senate has already said that it’s “dead in the water”.

          Reply

          • Posted by Marine1 on May 16, 2020 at 8:13 am

            TL- Remember the Tea Party back in 2008 crying about the debt of their grand kiddies ? Not a peep about this debt. Do you think the people that were be used for that fake movement realize at this point they were simply used as mules by political intrest groups ?

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