PFRS 20-And-Out Proceeds – Blindly

S1017, a proposal that would allow New Jersey police officers and firefighters to retire with half pay after 20 years of service, cleared a Senate committee yesterday after union officials told lawmakers it should help prevent stress-induced burnout and even suicides.

As for the cost. Who knows?

According to the njspotlight story:

A fiscal estimate prepared earlier this year by the nonpartisan Office of Legislative Services raised concerns that the policy change — however well-meaning — could further erode the fiscal health of the PFRS, which remains underfunded even though it is in better shape than other state retirement funds.

If all 6,881 employees eligible for the early-out benefit were to use it, the combined retirement allowance for those employees would increase pension payments by more than $400 million, according to the OLS estimate. But the nonpartisan analysts also cautioned that it is “not likely that all eligible members would retire under the new benefit.”

Politiconj (which requires a subscription to link to) had this:

Senate President Steve Sweeney said he supports the bill, rejecting estimates by legislative analysts about the added pension costs. “I support it. We’ve had two actuarial reports to look at to make sure, because there were numbers like it’s going to add $600 million. That’s not true,” Sweeney said. “That’s not true at all.” The independent actuary found the changes would cost $13.6 million a year and fall over time, Sweeney said.

The surprising part is that Sweeney and the unions couldn’t find an actuary to say this saves the state money…..though he came pretty close.


S1017 Provides retirement allowance after 20 years of service regardless of age for members of PFRS.
Budget and Appropriations


Identical Bill Number: A2562
Last Session Bill Number: S4297   A6024

Gopal, Vin   as Primary Sponsor
Lagana, Joseph A.   as Primary Sponsor

1/30/2020 Introduced in the Senate, Referred to Senate State Government, Wagering, Tourism & Historic Preservation Committee
3/5/2020 Reported from Senate Committee, 2nd Reading
3/5/2020 Referred to Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee

Introduced – – 3 pages PDF Format    HTML Format

Committee Voting:
SSG  3/5/2020  –  r/favorably  –  Yes {5}  No {0}  Not Voting {0}  Abstains {0}  –  Roll Call

  Beach, James (C) – Yes Addiego, Dawn Marie (V) – Yes Brown, Chris A. – Yes
  Thompson, Samuel D. – Yes Turner, Shirley K. – Yes

31 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Tough Love on March 6, 2020 at 9:52 am

    “The Independent Actuary”?

    How independent? If he/she is dependent on future Public Sector engagements to make a living, he/she is hardly “independent”.


    PS Drone make of good observation in his comment on your prior post on this bill……

    “You should check how much $ these two sponsoring ass clowns received from the LEO/FF. ”

    We SHOULD know the campaign contributions that the 2 primary sponsors of this bill (Vin Gopa and Joseph A. Lagana) received from the Police and Fire Unions ………. and it should considered BRIBE giving and receiving.

    The Taxpayer-betraying pieces of DOG SH** should be thrown out of office.


    • Posted by E on March 6, 2020 at 11:04 am

      Watch your blood pressure TL. Almost NOBODY takes the 20 and out. Although it may change witb the erosion of pensions, retiree health care and 2% raise caps.
      In the meantime this will not add any $$ to your local tax bill and your towns pension contribution will not go up either.
      NJ spotlight is the equivalent of a PBA newsletter for the police. It is biased against us. You can’t really do anything about Sweeney as he isn’t in your district.
      Again, this is a bill that was already in existence and everyone hired between 2000-2011 already thought they had that and future pension costs were based on that possibility.
      You can’t prove a bribe was made, because there wasn’t one. This is just cleaning up Christie’s mess.
      You have anger issues for sure. What would you even do if your kid was a cop or teacher??
      The 20 and out bill will not impact the pension system at all. Hardly ANYONE takes it.
      And of course Nj spotlight says the pension fund is hurting. Lol. The are a political as well. Sorta like your pension tsunami folks.
      Shut the fuck up and pay your bills, stupid woman. 🤣🤣😉😉
      You knew We were snakes when you voted for us. 🐍


      • Posted by Tough Love on March 6, 2020 at 11:50 am

        How are PFRS assets doing ?


        • Posted by E on March 6, 2020 at 4:16 pm

          Hmmmm. Good question. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say worth about as much as they were last year when the market closed at 25,600. Why? Because we know the towns and employees have both paid into the fund in the last year. I’ll bet you it is with a % point or two of that number. Don’t forget how high the assists climbed under trump to begin with. It is still up substantially since he took over. Even witb the virus impact.
          Nobody is going to be coming after my pension TL. And the market will be back over 30,000 when corona goes away next year and the orange man is re elected.
          I will stipulate that the virus (as opposed to just the market dropping) is going to cost him. Maybe even the election. He is absolutely terrible as a leader in a situation like this. Not that Biden would be much better. Just NO sanders.


          • Posted by Tough Love on March 6, 2020 at 7:40 pm

            Quoting …………

            “Hmmmm. Good question. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say worth about as much as they were last year when the market closed at 25,600. Why? Because we know the towns and employees have both paid into the fund in the last year. I’ll bet you it is with a % point or two of that number”

            Yup, but the liabilities don’t get a holiday and keep rising, which means a falling ….. from an VERY low ………..Funding ratio.

      • Posted by PS Drone on March 6, 2020 at 12:03 pm

        If “hardly anyone takes it” then obviously it is not needed. This is just one more example of the politician/drone cabal that treats the taxpayer like a fiscal pin cushion. This outrage needs to be publicized again and again until these flagrantly corrupt politicians go back to their hole. If the stress induced by guarding PSE&G work sites is too much to take, then a leave of absence should be authorized to alleviate it.


      • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on March 8, 2020 at 1:40 pm

        In the meantime this will not add any $$ to your local tax bill and your towns pension contribution will not go up either.
        You have NO idea, zero, of what the cost will be. No one does because there has been no valid or reliable study of it.


  2. Posted by E on March 6, 2020 at 4:26 pm

    Lol outrage. Give me a fucking break. You worse than she is
    Even that anti public worker rag said 6800 cops were eligible for this benefit. That number will be about the same every year due to some hitting 25 years and some hitting 20. I would say that less than 500 people a year take this benefit. And that is probably too high of a number. I could’ve and didn’t. I would’ve left w about $70,000 and no bennies. Many states have 20 and out. It is. It unique to NJ. And I doubt anyone who leaves the job because of psychological reasons does so because of pseg details, asshole. You want to talk pensions? Fine. It is beneath you to make fun of anyone suffering from mental illness. And candidly, you should want those guys removed from service.
    Easy to make jokes from behind a keyboard, the suicide rate of officers is certainly a huge issue. Outside of that issue, I agree with you that it is not needed.
    Sorry your life sucks so much that you need to comment like that to make yourself feel better, or compensate for a small package.
    Big time tool with all the answers. Clueless loser. Watch out Rex, she may have found a new doggie.


    • Posted by E on March 6, 2020 at 4:52 pm

      I just looked at the PFRS January 2019 meeting minutes. A whopping 6 officers took advantage of the 20 and out law. 6 officers retired between 20 and 25 years on. Not including disabilities of course. Even if we doubled that number every month we would be at only 144 or so a year. Safe to say the actual number is about 100 or so, no?
      Don’t take my word for it. Look it up and then pick another hill to die on. Lol.
      Financial impact 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😉


  3. Posted by E on March 6, 2020 at 5:55 pm

    and Feb was a whopping 13 of them (and one was a month shy of 25 years, read between the lines on that one)


    • Posted by e on March 6, 2020 at 5:58 pm

      But but but all 6800 could go at the same time!!!!! Oh no!!! Even before looking a the stats I told you NO ONE takes that benefit.


    • Posted by E on March 6, 2020 at 8:42 pm

      But but but they all will retire at the same time!!!! Market dropped. Sky is falling. I don’t care that is was up really super high!! El Gaupo doesn’t deserve his pension. 😩 waaaah!!!
      A super in Illinois!!! Gotta change the focus cause el Gaupo was right yet again!! He was right. He proved that virtually no one takes the 20 and out. And it has no impact. But but but he is a public sector moocher. I can’t stand him being right. I’m smarter than him. I work harder than him. Only I deserve my pay. 😭.
      Boo boo. But but but pension tsunami said they’ll all retire at the SAME time.

      Lol. You’re such a baby. You’d think you were in the INCEL club with the Rex and the dopey not so well endowed Drone. Three way maybe? Haha. Losers.


    • Posted by NJ2AZ on March 6, 2020 at 9:01 pm

      people like this are an interesting case. pits the dems “placate the unions” manta right up against their “fair share!” cries

      i fully expect these more outrageous pensions to take a haircut when the SHTF I know you think El G should be whacked down to $20k/yr. maybe he takes a hit some day maybe he doesn’t, but these six figure people…i’d bet real money they don’t see all of what they thought


  4. Posted by Tough Love on March 6, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    Yup, This is the IDIOT that leads America…………….



    Here is a look at the gap between what Trump has said and what health experts say:
    Experts say death rate is 3.4 percent. Trump says that’s ‘false.’

    The World Health Organization said earlier this week that about 3.4 percent of coronavirus patients have died.

    “Globally, about 3.4 percent of reported COVID-19 cases have died,” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the director general of the WHO, said at a press conference in Geneva earlier this week.

    During an interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity on Wednesday night, Trump claimed that the WHO estimate was “false,” citing a “hunch” he had.

    “I think the 3.4 percent is really a false number — and this is just my hunch — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this because a lot of people will have this and it’s very mild. They’ll get better very rapidly, they don’t even see a doctor, they don’t even call a doctor. You never hear about those people,” Trump said.
    Experts predict ‘more cases.’ Trump says U.S. cases ‘going very substantially down.’

    During a news conference at the White House last week, multiple health officials warned that the virus will continue to spread throughout the U.S.

    Senior CDC career official Anne Schuchat said at the press conference that “we do expect more cases and this is a good time to prepare” and Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar also said that the U.S. should expect to see more cases.

    But Trump has repeatedly downplayed the potential for the coronavirus to spread throughout the U.S., even suggesting without scientific evidence that the number of cases would soon decrease.

    At the same news conference, Trump said that the number of cases “within a couple of days, is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

    “We’re going very substantially down, not up,” Trump added.
    Trump says a vaccine is coming soon. Experts say not so fast.

    During a coronavirus roundtable with his task force and heads of pharmaceutical companies on Monday, Trump appeared to suggest that a vaccine for the coronavirus could be just a few months away.

    “I don’t know what the time will be. I’ve heard very quick numbers, that of months. And I’ve heard pretty much a year would be an outside number. So I think that’s not a bad range. But if you’re talking about three to four months in a couple of cases, a year in other cases,” Trump said.

    Dr. Antony Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, corrected Trump at the roundtable, explaining to the president that it would be more than a year by the time a vaccine was developed and tested and “deployable” for public use.


    • Posted by E on March 6, 2020 at 9:57 pm

      As I said earlier, this president has been a complete failure when dealing with the coronavirus. He is a blatant liar and while better for the country than Sanders, he may not be better than Biden. Sometimes I wonder how he can be so stupid sometimes.
      Oh well. Back to arguing about my pension I guess. For now, until Trumps next fuck up.


    • Posted by NJ2AZ on March 6, 2020 at 11:04 pm

      the death rate for reported cases is 3-4%. this is true as they have the numbers to back it up.

      but i would also agree the real death rate is likely lower. i’m certain their are unreported cases.

      trump still a dummy though. not saying otherwise.


      • Posted by PS Drone on March 7, 2020 at 9:56 am

        I will stipulate that Trump is a buffoon, but a “dummy?” Between the dummy and Dementia Joe, I will take the dummy. But I fear the stock market will catch up to him before the election.


        • Posted by E on March 7, 2020 at 10:41 am

          I don’t know anymore. Did you catch the Tennessee tornado interview in the field with him? Family wiped out and killed (except one child). No emotion. Couldn’t really care less. And of course didn’t miss an opportunity to wear his Keep America Great Again cap. Campaigning in a disaster zone.
          🙄 Trump over Sanders. But sleep joe May just take him. 50/50. I think the way the president has handled the coronavirus response just shows how unprepared and dangerous he truly can be for our country. You have the Mooch and Kellyanne Conway husband actively campaigning against him. He is truly unfit for the office. I think the markets will be just fine w Biden. A bit lower for sure but he won’t do any real damage like Sanders. It may be worth the little bit less in the market to have someone who is a little less polarizing and while he may be just as dumb, he will let the bakers bake. Climate change will be on the forefront again and the country may be better off and not so divided.


          • Posted by Tough Love on March 7, 2020 at 10:52 am

            Well stated !

          • Posted by E on March 7, 2020 at 4:09 pm

            Thank you. I thought I was dreaming there for a minute. You? Complementing me? Is it a full moon or the clock change maybe? Lol. Either way I appreciate it.

  5. Posted by Tough Love on March 7, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    “President Donald Trump has largely downplayed the severity of the outbreak and placed officials with little to no background in managing public health crises or infectious diseases in charge of spearheading the White House’s response.

    On Friday, the president drew sharp backlash when he told reporters that although scientific and medical experts had urged him to bring infected Americans off the cruise ship, he didn’t want to do so because it would cause the number of reported cases to go up and it “wasn’t our fault.””

    Is THIS the person that you want to be calling the shots if we got into another military conflict in the Middle East ?


  6. Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! 🐶🐶🐶🦴🦴🦴 on March 8, 2020 at 1:39 pm

    …it should help prevent stress-induced burnout and even suicides.
    Another made up WHOPPER lie by the GED Cops and Firewhiners. Right up there with the lie that they all die 3 days after retiring.


    • Posted by E on March 8, 2020 at 3:17 pm

      It may or it may not. But to deny that we have a serious problem with police suicides in this country is also not accurate. I don’t think the 20 bill will lower that. We have had the 20 and out for 20 years. That suicide rate is still WAY higher than the rest of the population. The only way to definitively see if it prevented suicides is to send questionnaires to all 20 and out retirees and ask them if retiring at 20 kept them from taking their own life.
      A better idea is exactly what the state is doing and reducing the stigma associated with asking for help. A new program trains officers to be resiliency officers. There will be two in my dept, I will be one of them. Officers will be encouraged to come to us with any problems they may be having without fear of retribution. We will also be on the lookout for indications of mental health issues that may arise and reach out to the officer involved. Depression is a serious problem for some. I have been on too many suicides and attempted suicides. Sometimes it is genetic. Other times not. You can fly as high as you want in this country, but if you don’t keep up you’re a loser. Bad message to send sometimes. Poke fun if you will. It is a serious issue statewide, especially for youngsters. It is also very prevalent in police work.


      • Posted by Tough Love on March 9, 2020 at 9:21 pm

        I believe that if Police did not have such easy availability to guns …….. the most effective and least painfull method of killing oneself ………….. their suicide rate would be little different than that of people in many other occupations.

        Of course, we can’t get around that (Police having guns) so easily availability of confidential mental health services is a very good idea.


        • Posted by Tough Love on March 9, 2020 at 9:26 pm

          Or stated from the other view ………….

          The suicide rate for NON-Police would be much GREATER than it is now if they had as easy access to guns as Police now do.


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