State Tax Burdens Ranked by Kiplinger

But not according to a Kiplinger report on taxes that puts New Jersey as only the fifth worst according to the criteria they used (ignoring things like debt and tolls while under-weighting the property tax burden):

The Bottom Line
Flag of New Jersey

Least Tax-Friendly

Income tax rates for Garden State residents are relatively low compared with some other tax-unfriendly states. They checked in as the third-lowest in our survey for states with a broad-based income tax. (There’s also a payroll tax in Newark.) But while New Jersey gives residents a break on income taxes, it brings the hammer down when they buy a home. New Jersey’s property taxes are the highest in the U.S. The state-wide average property tax on a $400,000 home in New Jersey comes to a whopping $10,120.

As any East Coast traveler can tell you, New Jersey is no longer a place where you can hop off an exit and buy cheap gas. At 41.4 cents per gallon, the state’s gas tax is now the 11th-highest in the country. New Jersey is one of Kiplinger’s top ten least tax-friendly states.

Sales Tax

6.625% state levy. That rate is cut in half (3.313%) for in-person sales in designated Urban Enterprise Zones located in disadvantaged areas. Salem County, which borders no-tax Delaware, also charges the reduced 3.313% rate. Notably, motor vehicles are charged at the regular rate in these locations. Most clothing and footwear are tax-exempt year round throughout the state.

Income Tax Range

Low: 1.4% (on up to $20,000 of taxable income)

High: 10.75% (on taxable income over $5,000,000).

Effective tax rate: 1.53% for single filers, 3.37% for joint filers

New Jersey allows localities to impose an income tax; the average levy is 0.5%, per the Tax Foundation.

Motor Fuel Taxes

Gasoline: $0.4140 per gallon.
Diesel: $0.4850 per gallon.

Property Taxes

In New Jersey, residents pay an average of $2,530 in taxes per $100,000 of assessed home value.

Vehicle Taxes

Sales tax is due on purchases.

Sin Taxes

Cigarettes: $2.70 per pack
Moist snuff: $0.75 per ounce
Other tobacco products: 30% of the wholesale price
Vapor products: $0.10 per milliliter of e-liquid.

Beer: $0.12 per gallon
Hard cider: $0.15 per gallon
Wine: $0.88 per gallon
Liquor: $5.50 per gallon

Taxes On Wireless Service

8.95%

Inheritance and Estate Taxes

New Jersey imposes an inheritance tax, at graduated rates ranging from 11% to 16%, on the transfer from a decedent to certain beneficiaries of real and personal property that has a total value of $500 or more. No tax is imposed on transfers to parents, grandparents, descendants, children and their descendants, spouses, civil union partners, domestic partners or charities. There is a $25,000 exemption per Class C beneficiary (siblings, sons-in-law and daughters-in-law).

New Jersey’s estate tax ended in 2017.

Oddball Tax

Want to own a plush or fuel-thirsty ride? That’ll cost you extra in the Garden State. A 0.4% surcharge is levied on cars that cost more than $45,000 or have a combined EPA fuel-mileage average of 19 or below.

50 responses to this post.

  1. Where does NJ stand in per capita income?
    Where does NJ stand in ranked school systems nationwide?
    Top 3 in both. So make your dough here and if you want to move away when retired you’ll live like a king!!!!

    Reply

    • Posted by Marine1 on October 3, 2019 at 5:31 pm

      E- Exactly. It’s a no brainer. You aren’t supposed to retire here. It’s amazing how so many people (plenty on here) can’t grasp that. It feeds right into my civilian argument.

      Reply

    • Posted by stanley on October 3, 2019 at 11:49 pm

      Just out of curiosity, how much net disposable income do typical northern NJ folks have? $10K in real estate taxes on a $400K home? According to Zillow, you don’t buy much of a home in Northern NJ for $400K. And even 500 or 600K buys a 50 year old house–better be good with tools. And a one car garage!

      ” So make your dough here and if you want to move away when retired you’ll live like a king!!!!”

      Constable, there is every kind of pitfall in the way of your road to living like royalty. LOL You’re pushing 50 and still a neophyte! And there are the non trough eaters that are receiving less so that you can receive more. Try to be real careful that you don’t buy too many pigs in pokes.

      Reply

      • You’re dead on accurate with the real estate. I own an almost 60 year old split level, paid $260K for it in 1998. We put an addition on adding a master bedroom and bathroom.(4 bedrooms 3 baths) One car garage(but a four car driveway..lol). And I could sell it for around $600. Housing and taxes are expensive in Jersey. At least in the north. This is a phenomenon that occurred during the around the very late nineties/early 2000s. My father bought a colonial in the same county in 1963 for $23,000. I was extremely lucky as I bought right before things got nuts. Constables hired now are buying homes a little further away, and they are still expensive.
        And as I also stated, you can me a neophyte, or young man anytime you want. It’s not something a hear to often anymore. Usually, as Marine1 can I’m sure attest to, the word is dinosaur! The last generation of cops to know how to survive without a freaking computer working in the car for a few hours. New guys be like “ahh.. the computer is down, what am I going to do”

        Reply

    • Posted by geo8rge on October 5, 2019 at 11:39 am

      “Where does NJ stand in ranked school systems nationwide?”

      The current state of the school system is not the issue, an unfunded pension scheme points to future austerity budgets when money will be shifted away from education and everything else into pension benefits. Look at how NJT has decayed. NJT was a less controversial thing to throw overboard so it went first.

      Reply

  2. Posted by dentss dunnagan on October 3, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    NJ has nine of the most miserable cities ….

    Reply

  3. Posted by MJ on October 4, 2019 at 5:55 am

    The problem with making your money here and then moving in retirement is that the younger folks are not staying and many are not buying homes here. Most major companies have left for tax friendlier states. I have been reading that the pharmaceutical companies are considering relocating also and now with all of the ongoing and continuing lawsuits, etc. they stand to lose a lot. Many of the small towns down my way are crumbling……houses that just sit there are being renovated in the hopes of selling. A 200,000 renovated home could carry a real estate tax of over 8,000.00. When retirees decide to move(public or private) they take their resources with them. I know many who have moved to FL or SC and can’t sell their homes in NJ. One friend was able to rent theirs for the moment.

    So those folks retiring to other states are not being replaced by younger workers who are living, working and paying taxes here. But they are being replaced by needier people, sanctuary state people, lower skilled people etc. I read where McDonalds will have cut its workforce in half by 2024 due to automation. and looks like Sweeney may get his way with school district consolidation so those folks will be eating each other alive to keep their positions. And with all of this political upheaval who knows how that will affect the economy and housing markets but maybe Warren has the right idea, just tax the shit out of the wealthy people IDK

    It’s really NOT that simple to say make your money here then move elsewhere in retirement.
    But what do I know as that’s my plan.

    Reply

    • Posted by stanley on October 4, 2019 at 7:10 am

      “…make your money here then move elsewhere in retirement.”

      That’s more of a rationalization than a sound idea as you point out in writing about young people moving out of state. I bet that the pharmaceuticals are outsourcing much research to Israel and India. Any intelligent manager must realize that the future isn’t in such a corrupt place as the northeast.

      Reply

    • Posted by PS Drone on October 4, 2019 at 10:07 am

      Great plan until there is no one coming in to buy your home at anything close to what you think it is “worth”. Let’s be realistic – aside from public sector workers, who wants to move to New Jersey?

      Reply

      • And yet in North Jersey the real estate market is still very hot 🤷‍♀️
        MJ, PS and TL you all would have to admit that at least in north jersey anyway that overall salaries of private and public sector employees are higher here. And the schools are better. Top 3 in the country in person capita income and schools.
        When I do these road jobs that TL loves so much, I talk to tree trimming companies that travel here from PA. They say they make 3 to 4X more for jobs in this area.
        Candidly, why else would you stay here if you truly did not make more money here and they had no kids in school and they thought the housing market was really going to implode?
        Many many areas of the country are much more poverty stricken than NJ.
        And MJ, while I somewhat agree with Warren about taxing the super rich a little more(trickle down doesn’t work) she lost my vote when she tweeted that “today marks the five year anniversary of Michael Brown being murdered by a white officer”. Sorry. Deal breaker for me. (Not that I would’ve voted for her anyway).

        Reply

        • Even TL admitted that real estate prices have held their own in her area. The same millennials who a decade ago spawned the resurgence of urban areas, jersey city waterfront, Hoboken, etc and their love of townhouses and mass transit are now reaching their mid thirties, having children and wanting to buy in the suburbs once again like their boomer parents and older Gen Xers have done. Excellent schools are a great draw to parents who give a shot about their kids.
          The retire to the south phenomenon has been around for 30 years or more now.

          Reply

          • Posted by MJ on October 4, 2019 at 3:14 pm

            Well E then perhaps the question should be “can North Jersey” carry the rest of the state on promises of pensions and lifetime healthcare. Doubt it but yay we are number 1 in worst shape for pensions!!! Hooray!

          • I went to the police academy in south jersey. The predominant attitude among the recruits there was that we (201 ers as they called us) thought we were better than they were. And I will admit that in general, folks are nicer down in South Jersey.
            Is there any truth to the last statement?

        • Posted by Marine1 on October 4, 2019 at 6:13 pm

          E- Two houses sold in about two months on my street. I live in Haddonfield,Camden County. Doesn’t seem to be an issue in my town. I don’t expect it to an issue at all.

          Reply

          • I know. Stanley thinks the sky is falling. Lol.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 5, 2019 at 7:41 am

            Marine 1, Haddonfield is a very wealthy area as you know. It is also a historic district. Lots of lawyers, doctors, public administrators live there and double couple public workers. My former neighbor just moved there for the schools. There will always be areas that are a bit of an exception to the rule. I also work with two 50ish people who just moved out of Haddonfield and had great difficulty selling their homes……..and had to settle for a lot less than listing price and meet the high demands of the buyers.

            We can all identify individual cases of someone buying or successfully selling their home. We sold our primary home about 6 years ago for full asking price and was under contract within 2 weeks (btw a public worker bought our house.) The homes in that area are now sitting longer, price dropping and selling for a lot less. Many have been abandoned or neglected and the town is trying to figure out what to do. Many people can not afford to sell bc their home is till underwater. They are working and can make the mortgage but not a whole lot else. Any sellers are being put through the wringer by the demands of potential buyers.

            In real estate, there will always be someone buying or selling for a huge variety of reasons. We are talking about the big picture not individual sales of houses.

            So perhaps the question should be….will the wealthier areas of NJ be able to carry the rest of the state

        • Posted by Tough Love on October 4, 2019 at 10:10 pm

          Lol, quoting El gaupo ………………. “When I do these road jobs that TL loves so much, I talk to tree trimming companies that travel here from PA. They say they make 3 to 4X more for jobs in this area.”

          And you see nothing WRONG with those workers busting their butts (even for 3 to 4 times what they could make in PA) while you do essentially NOTHING for 8 hours and “earn” (as you would put it) WAY WAY more than they do ?

          Reply

          • No. Of course not. The same way I have no problem with Giancarlo Stanton making $22M this year and missing most of it due to injury(not to mention he sucks in the outfield). He signed the contract. He deserves what is owed to him. Is he very very greedy? You never answered my question. You yell at me for the same thing….
            And last time I checked, that tree guy has a sliver of the responsibility that a Police Officer has. Did you see all the cops at the funeral for the NYPD cop today?
            Why on God’s green earth would I feel that I didn’t deserve what the town agreed to pay me? I’m doing nothing wrong.
            Get off your high horse. Did you feel guilty making more $$ than the parking attendant at Metlife Stadium?
            Again I ask you, are people that are better compensated than I am greedy in your mind? Or is it just because I am a police officer/public employee and should take a fucking vow of poverty to make your dumb ass happy? Which is it?

          • Please answer that question…..and then follow up with this one….would you if you were a police officer feel like you didn’t deserve what you were compensated even though your employer agreed to it? I’m assuming (maybe wrongly I don’t know) that you have a husband and children. Why wouldn’t you think you deserve what your employer AGREED to pay you?
            Please answer the two questions.
            1) richer folks than me—greedy?
            2) if you were a cop would you feel same as you expect me to feel?

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 5, 2019 at 1:38 am

            Elgaupo,

            My response to your above 2 comments is (pasted below) the SAME that I stated in Mr. Bury’s Prior Blog posting:
            ——————————————————–

            Posted by Tough Love on October 4, 2019 at 9:13 pm

            El gaupo,

            Yes, I hold everyone to the SAME standard.

            In the PRIVATE Sector, compensation is indeed fairly negotiated BECUASE the person who is financially on-the-hook to pay is indeed sitting on one side of the negotiating table and looking out for his/her own best interests, and that applies even for actors or athletes who make many millions per year. They choose to pay that actor or athlete $10, $20, or $30 Million because they believe that person’s presence on the team or in the movie has value-added greater than what they are paying.

            Compensation in the PUBLIC Sector never truly represents or has the the best interests of the ultimate payor …. the Taxpayer ….. as paramount. Those “negotiating” with your Association (aka UNION) whether the Elected Officials themselves or their surrogates, participate in the SAME types of Pension/Benefit Plans that you do and have ZERO interest in controlling their level of generosity, and hence cost. Any whether your PBA Local does so or not, we both know that there is a tacit understanding that the Elected Officials are trading their affirmative vote on Public Sector pay, pensions, and benefits in exchange for campaign contributions, election support, and the block votes of the Union members.

            The deck is stacked against the Taxpayers. We’re the “suckers” in the equation at every turn.

            You do NOT deserve compensation FAR in excess of that typically granted a Private Sector worker in a job requiring reasonably comparable education, experience, skills, and knowledge ………… and you assuredly have not “earned” such compensation under the classical definition of “earned”.

            And yes, by proclaiming that you do deserve it and have earned it, you are indeed greedy, VERY VERY greedy.

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on October 5, 2019 at 2:37 am

            And yes, by proclaiming that you do deserve it and have earned it, you are indeed greedy, VERY VERY greedy.
            LOL….EG is a legend in his own mind, like Marine1!

          • Okay. Cool TL. Just so I know exactly where you’re coming from you jealous loser.
            Again, not one time ever has my local PBA donated a fucking dime to a local elected officials campaign. Not ever once. And these local council people who vote on and approve our contracts, aren’t in PFRS or pers for that matter anymore. They have discretion on everything except pensions. On the state level, everybody and their brother donates to candidates who will further their cause. Builders, drug companies, farmers, and wait for it……financial companies. So I’m crystal clear here…..a millionaire who made his dough (like many shady folks that work in your line of work) in the private sector Is not greedy but I am. Ok got it. Lol.
            I was wrong. You’re not a communist/socialist, you just want to have a different set of rules for me. Haha. Discrimination for some. How’s it feel to hate so much that you want to limit only my ability to make a fucking living. Hmmm? Asshole. I’m supposed to feel greedy? No thanks. Grateful and fortunate yes. Greedy? No.
            And at Rex you half right. I am a legend 😎. And be careful, you seem to on occasion when you stop hating on me and Marine1 to actually have a brain— notes during your commentary about the Guyger Trial. Stop making her be your owner. Bite her in the ass and set yourself free. My two rescues love life with me. Long walks, both sleep in my kids bed.
            Break away from the bitch who cages and kicks you if she gets frustrated.

            AZ, MJ, PS and even Rex.
            Do you guys think that I am very very greedy? Not fortunate to have nice bennies BUT very very greedy like TL says? Or do you think, judging from my non TL stoked posts that I am a decent guy? And if you do then do you also think that private sector people who make lots more money than me, are by extension also very very greedy as well or is it just because I work in law enforcement/public sector…
            Personally, I think she is a asshole but🤷‍♀️, to quote Dennis Miller—-that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 5, 2019 at 9:25 am

            El gaupo,

            Wash, rinse, repeat………….. you’ve added nothing new.

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 5, 2019 at 9:38 am

            Tell us El gaupo,

            What do you do (in that Northern NJ bedroom community) or what VERY special and VERY hard to acquire skills or knowledge do you have that justifies a total compensation package that, at least for the past few years, is near (perhaps on the higher than) $250,000 per year?

          • Lol. Coming from the same copy and paste for the past decade loser…. again, give me your home address, I’ll stop by with my first pension check and sign it over to you. Hahaha.
            Jealous. No life. Soo worried about me and whether I feel Greedy. I think you are a cheap fuck. Lol. 🖕🖕🖕🖕🤣🤣🤣
            You haven’t had an original thought in years. And you say it’s not personal, bullshit!! Asking me if I feel greedy.
            You are not a very good person. Get a life.

          • And you know fucking god damn well what being a cop entails…..however, we don’t know precisely what YOU do for a living or how much $$ you make….so why don’t YOU share!!!! Asshole!!!
            Hater, once again, asshole, I deserve whatever my employer and I agree on. You have no say. None. You’re just on here sharing your opinion. And I’m here to tell you mine. And you know what that is….lol.

          • And it kills you to know I’ll get the free bennies and six figure pension for the rest of my life. You know it’s true. Oh well🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️
            So what is it….how much do you make and what EXACTLY do you do, do you have a family, husband and kids that rely on that salary?? Please share. Or do you only like to throw grenades from behind the keyboard??
            You should move. Then you won’t have to pay NJ taxes anymore, and I won’t have to share it with you. Or better yet, wait a few more years and I’ll be out of your hair. Crybaby

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 5, 2019 at 11:48 am

            “…make your money here then move elsewhere in retirement.”

            Move to California. CalPERS has a pension option that, if my wife and I both pass before my contributions + ROI have been disbursed, the balance will go to our designated beneficiary. (We took a small reduction to get this benefit.) They tell me my portion will be used up next year (11 years) and I (we) will be entirely on state money. Our daughter will get nothing when we pass.
            CalPERS only has $380 billion. If they run dry before I die, we will need lots of taxpayers.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 5, 2019 at 12:39 pm

            “The only time you should look in your neighbor’s bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don’t look in your neighbor’s bowl to see if you have as much as them” – Louis C.K.

            You don’t know what your neighbor had to do to fill that bowl.

            TL and the dog are obsessed by law enforcement (and firefighters). They know that, by comparison, lower level public employees earn much more than those in the private sector. And almost nobody cares. But medium to high level public employees are the lightning rods. (Because they are higher than the “average” private worker… “Beware the flaw of averages.”)

            The big difference in wages (and benefits) is not between private and public. It is between small businesses and large. And government in general is big business.

            Retirement security is a worthwhile goal, and it is something government should be encouraging… and practicing. In the last dozen years, we have seen the weaknesses of current pension systems, laws, and regulations, both public and private. Fix them.

            We have also seen very notable examples of extreme neglect of pension funding responsibilities. You know who you are. Don’t blame the victims.

            Stop me if you’ve heard this before?

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on October 5, 2019 at 8:58 pm

            TL and the dog are obsessed by law enforcement (and firefighters). They know that, by comparison, lower level public employees earn much more than those in the private sector
            Dougie, put your crack pipe down….

  4. Posted by Tough Love on October 5, 2019 at 6:17 pm

    Lol …………….

    I asked EL gaupo, while likely earning MORE in CASH WAGES alone than a comparably situated (in education, experience, skills and knowledge) Private Sector worker, if he “deserves” a pension that (because of it’s extraordinary generosity and VERY young age at which it can begin) costs taxpayers 5 to 10 TIMES what Private Sector workers typically get in retirement security from their employers.

    He responds that he DOES.

    What am I missing here?

    Reply

  5. Posted by Anonymous on October 5, 2019 at 8:18 pm

    Give it up, buttercup. You have never, and can never, provide data for a “comparably situated (in education, experience, skills and knowledge) Private Sector worker…” That’s not the way it works.

    The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has termed the human capital model of wages, as the “dominant theory of wage determination in the field of economics.” But it has limitations.

    “We assess public employee pay using regression analysis, which examines how differences in a number of independent variables – such as education, experience, whether the individual is employed in the public sector, and so on – translate into changes in the dependent variable, in this case annual earnings. The independent variables cannot perfectly predict salaries for any given individual. The regression analysis does, however, calculate values for the independent variables that minimize errors in predicting the value of the dependent variable. Thus, while regression analysis cannot prove that any single individual is over- or under-paid, it can indicate whether pay differs systematically between the public and private sectors.”

    “The independent variables cannot perfectly predict salaries for any given individual.”
    Biggs

    Or any given group of individuals (e.g. law enforcement.)
    Anonymous

    “We exclude public safety employees because their work conditions, which may include both threats to life and limb, differ from other government workers and from private-sector employees in general.”
    Biggs

    If Hackensack University Medical sector is looking for a coding specialist (they are), Biggs’ human capital study won’t do them a bit of good. (Munnell won’t help either.) They will need to survey similar positions in the immediate area, and refine the search from there. The range appears to be from $20,000 to $103,000 a year, with an average of $53,000.

    “the majority of salaries within the Hospital Coding Specialist jobs category currently range between $36,981 (25th percentile) to $61,635 (75th percentile) in New Jersey.”

    Ceteris paribus, a coding specialist in a smaller hospital will earn less than one in a larger hospital, and one in a major city will earn more than in a rural area. Are you stable genius enough to tell that $103,000 specialist that he/she is paid too much? That they are greedy? In either or all cases, the compensation is determined by the worker and the employer. If the employer does not offer enough, he will never be able to attract and maintain qualified employees.

    El guapo and Marine1 earn vastly different salaries (and commensurately different pensions). How similar their jobs are, I don’t know. Neither do you.

    With all the variables, what do you think qualifies you, rather than their employers, to determine their compensation?

    Lol …………….

    Reply

  6. Posted by Anonymous on October 5, 2019 at 8:22 pm

    “regression analysis cannot prove that any single individual is over- or under-paid”
    Andrew Biggs.

    Neither can TL.
    Anonymous

    Lol …………….

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on October 6, 2019 at 12:01 am

      Why do you keep posting under Anonymous instead of Stephen Douglas ?

      I’t hard keeping track of all the Anonymi.

      Reply

      • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on October 6, 2019 at 1:14 am

        Because Dougie is a dork!

        Reply

        • To be fair Rex, honestly, what would make you less of a dork when you post as a 🐶, etc. . lol. Not trying to offend you just saying.

          Reply

          • And we know exactly why he does it and I think it is funny. It gets a rise out of TL. He knows it bothers her and he knows she is a mean jealous soul. Same reason I go at her. We all know who it is him, but we also find it amusing. And I like the fact, that it needles her somewhat. I’m all for that. She thinks I’m a very greedy person. The epitome of greed. Screw her. Notice no one, not even her doggie backs her up when she throws those insults. SD sees all….and he knows the deal. Thank you Anonymous, I appreciate you speaking truth. She is invalid!!!

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 6, 2019 at 1:45 pm

            Yes El gaupo ………..

            When you have ZERO “defense” because what the other side has claimed is accurate, try an aggressive “offensive “offense” ……… just like Trump.

            With your unnecessarily high cash wages ALONE, WHAT justifies your ludicrously excessive pension and benefits ?

            Try ANSWERING that question instead of changing the subject and resorting to juvenile insults.

  7. Posted by MJ on October 6, 2019 at 9:19 am

    El G, I personally don’t believe that you are greedy but rather you have been “promised” for years in regard to pensions, lifetime healthcare, etc and it’s just what you have been accustomed to and any attempt at “reforming” or changing what you have been indoctrinated with for so many years would be difficult for anyone to have to contend with….so no, not greedy you are just of the mindset that this is the way to go and that’s that.

    IDK what a fair wage is for a career LEO or what a fair retirement compensation would be but surely the game should have been adjusted to address the financial cluster f*ck that is NJ (excuse my curse word)

    According to TL you will receive millions over the course of your retirement years? I’m just not sure moving forward that that will become a reality but what do I know. As many have pointed out on this blog they have been talking about the doom and gloom for years and so far nothing has happened. I’m sure that myself and others will be long gone, reading from afar as developments come up. Then again, I’m sure there will be lots of other issues to deal with in our exodus to more tax friendly states.

    Reply

    • Instead of also focusing on those other issues that involve in many cases folks who are indeed very greedy or downright criminal, she chooses to attack me on this blog in a manner that goes far beyond anyone else.
      As you see she really doesn’t have the support in here that she thinks she does. I am a hard working decent guy who tries to do right be everyone. However, I will clap back at her when she crosses the line. Which she can’t help.
      Nationwide, police and fire folks get a pension and get to retire earlier. This is not unique to NJ. Of course we get paid more than a cop in Mississippi, it cost more to live here. That’s life. She has trouble dealing with that so she calls me very greedy, epitome of greed, a moocher, etc.
      She is not a very nice person. I wouldnt want her as a friend or close confidant. If you made more than her, she hold it against you personally.
      And honestly, have you really read a lot of articles from mayors etc where they say they can’t afford the police anymore? Even her own numbers don’t play that out. She feels that SHE should have some say as to what I earn. Wrong. It’s between me and my employer. And she hates that.

      Reply

      • Posted by MJ on October 6, 2019 at 12:39 pm

        El G, Actually down in my neck of the woods, consolidating or reducing the police is and has been on the agenda lots of times for many smaller towns. You know, tiny bedroom towns all with their own fire and police and huge administrative costs that go with it…….those I know who have gone to the “council” meetings to “discuss” it are met with hostile looking officers in full regalia and usually their families. Anyone who speaks out then becomes a pariah of sorts.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on October 6, 2019 at 1:58 pm

          Quoting MJ ……………

          “I know who have gone to the “council” meetings to “discuss” it are met with hostile looking officers in full regalia and usually their families. Anyone who speaks out then becomes a pariah of sorts.”

          INDEED …. and that has happened in NJ with the few attempts to consolidate Police agencies. It’s called INTIMIDATION.
          ———————————

          And to El gaupo ………… I don’t “attack” or even dislike “you”…………… I strongly advocate to materially reduce the now ludicrously excessive, unnecessary, unfair to Taxpayers, and unaffordable Public Sector pensions and benefits (of which Safety-worker pensions are by far the richest, and hence most egregious).

          Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on October 6, 2019 at 8:11 pm

      Quoting MJ ……………

      “El G, I personally don’t believe that you are greedy but rather you have been “promised” for years in regard to pensions, lifetime healthcare, etc and it’s just what you have been accustomed to and any attempt at “reforming” or changing what you have been indoctrinated with for so many years would be difficult for anyone to have to contend with….so no, not greedy you are just of the mindset that this is the way to go and that’s that.”

      I don’t disagree with that observation, focusing on your words …… promised, accustomed to, indoctrinated.

      And I do understand where El gaupo’s thinking is coming from, but the rest of the world (the PRIVATE Sector) MUST roll with for financial punches that come their way….. being laid-off at a MUCH greater rate than those in the Public Sector, having their (always MUCH less rich) DB pensions Plans frozen or never participating in one at all, retirement at age 65 or 67, not 60 or 55 or 50, NEVER getting any employer-sponsored retiree healthcare benefits, etc

      So I’m sorry, but when those things materially impact the financial well-being of Private Sector Taxpayers, all while those Private Sector Taxpayers are forced to fund 80% to 90% of the Total Cost of Public Sector pensions, the Public Sector workers’ obstinate refusal to acknowledge that changing world and ACCEPT the need for “less” constitutes being GREEDY. and making only new/non-vested workers take the hit is insufficient..

      Reply

      • Hmmm,…you don’t advocate a rich guy to lower the prices of the wares that he is selling to benifit the folks in town who may have some trouble paying for it. If a small group of taxpayers are having trouble paying their taxes/mortgage that is not a reason to come after me so someone like you can also reap the benefits of those savings. Until you ask the local Ford dealer/shop rite store etc to drop his prices so you’re one neighbor who lost his job can afford to pay for stuff he needs, don’t come asking me to give up pay and/or benefits. And NO I am not greedy for saying so….
        And MJ, I am not against consolidation. Especially with very tiny forces. However, let’s be honest. If they had a meeting at your job and we’re going to merge and you would get screwed as a result, somehow I think you would stand up for yourself during that meeting.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on October 6, 2019 at 9:18 pm

          (1) Quoting ………. “Hmmm,…you don’t advocate a rich guy to lower the prices of the wares that he is selling to benifit the folks in town who may have some trouble paying for it. ”

          The “market” essentially sets what he can charge. If he changes more than what the “market” calls for, his customers will shop elsewhere. Unlike in the Private Sector your compensation is determined by underhanded deal-making, bribery, and racketeering between your Unions and our Elected Officials.

          (2) quoting ……… ” If a small group of taxpayers are having trouble paying their taxes/mortgage that is not a reason to come after me so someone like you can also reap the benefits of those savings. ”

          There are no tax “savings” on any horizon. Given that YOUR PFRS pension is only about 50% funded (when valued on a realistic basis) and the other State & Local Plans being even less-funded, I’m just looking to NOT PAY they INCREASED taxes that would be needed to fully fund these ludicrously excessive pension and benefit promises made to ALL Public Sector workers. Although you seem fixated on it, YOU, as an individual Public Sector worker, are not on my radar in any way.

          (3) Quoting ………… ” If they had a meeting at your job and we’re going to merge and you would get screwed as a result, somehow I think you would stand up for yourself during that meeting.”

          Having worked in NON-Union Corporate America for some time, that statement is hilarious. Exactly WHO is that person supposed to “stand up to” the Company President or CEO? That might even get them to the top of the lay-off list. When management chooses to merge, headcount reductions follow because THAT is where almost all of the savings come from. In the discussions of Public Sector mergers that I have observed, not surprisingly, the ALWAYS-first “rule” is that NOBODY will be laid-off…… only via retirement. Well, now that’s a joke, and there goes 90+% of any potentials “savings”. What makes PUBLIC Sector workers so “special” that they get to follows “rules” that are FAR more beneficial to THEM at the TAXPAYERS’ expense?

          Reply

  8. Posted by MJ on October 7, 2019 at 8:13 am

    E, you are probably right in that yes I would stand up for myself if my job was consolidating and my position was on the line. The difference is that the private company still has the final say and companies are downsized regularly. The public domain not so much. I suppose its different in the sense of public safety vs IDK what.

    As far as private companies such as a Ford dealer or a Shop Rite lowering prices well we as consumers have a choice where to shop for best or lowest prices or with who ever is willing to wheel and deal to make a sale. We as taxpayers have no choice in how large the municipal government grows and I am not by any means singling out the police.

    BTW…read that the police will be endorsing Trump?

    Reply

    • MJ many local private sector businesses thrive due to lack of serious competition. What I’m saying is should Shop Rite(In many areas, especially urban and rural areas there is very little choice when it comes to supermarkets etc) should shop rite drop there’s prices because 10% of the customers can’t afford to buy their staples?
      I have commented on here for many months and have not been by any stretch what you would call a hard line person who has no compromise in him. With TL, by her own admission says she is LOATHE to admit she is wrong to a public sector employee, she always finds faults with my comments unless it is climate change or harassment as a pension disqualifier. She is biased against me and it shows. I e the constant name calling, the links to stories where cops fuck up, etc while not balancing that with good stories. She is not a nice person.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on October 7, 2019 at 8:58 pm

        Quoting El gaupo ………….

        ” With TL, by her own admission says she is LOATHE to admit she is wrong to a public sector employee”

        Please provide a link to such a statement from me …….. as they say PUT-UP or SHUT-UP.
        ——————————————

        Quoting El gaupo………….. “the constant name calling”

        Now that’s a laugh……….

        In the comments attached to this ONE Blog Post, I have called you:

        greedy and a moocher.

        YOU have called me: ………..

        dumb ass ….
        jealous loser ….
        asshole (twice, so far) …..
        loser (again) …..
        cheap fuck …
        Asshole!!! (this time with Quotation marks) ….
        hater ….
        asshole (again) …..
        Crybaby (ok, that’s one is not so bad) …..
        mean jealous soul
        =========================================

        So who’s calling who names?

        And who has the ANGER problem ?

        Reply

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