I See a Bailout for Multiemployer Plans

H.R. 397, the bailout bill for multiemployer plans, is likely to become law and here is why.

1) Bailout nation: though this is a particularly clumsy and transparent bailout it has become the go-to remedy for:

2) Vocal constituency: saving the pensions of hard-working people has many focused proponents who benefit immediately. Fiscal responsibility has few, if any.

3) MPRA is not working

4) Trump and enough Senate Republicans can be bought in an election year. Picture an October, 2020 bill signing in Des Plaines, IL or Triangle, VA with tens of millions of grateful voters cheering. And for those who would bring up the chimera of conservative principles in this country:
.

39 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by NJ2AZ on August 4, 2019 at 5:10 pm

    Though i think the bill is a giant pile of garbage, i agree it will pass as well. Pension politics aside, good chance a lot of those older working class voters might vote for a republican. Why gift wrap them for the democrats?

    There’s no point in caring anyway. We are on an unstoppable course to fiscal calamity..probably in the next 10-20 years.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tony Pockey on August 7, 2019 at 8:16 am

      agreed, for decades union leadership has been saying republicans are the enemy. they are counting on senate to shoot it down

      Reply

    • Posted by Al on August 7, 2019 at 9:16 pm

      Selling U.S. Treasury bonds (the safest investment on the planet) to private financial firms is not a bailout by any definition. Please reexamine your thinking.

      Reply

  2. Posted by Anonymous on August 4, 2019 at 5:20 pm

    Does an early bailout of teamsters increase or decrease the likelihood and ability of Uncle Sam to bailout state and local gov? I personally think state and local retirees will regret letting teamsters get first access at the trough.

    Reply

    • Posted by NJ2AZ on August 4, 2019 at 6:54 pm

      at this point i predict any non-trivial constituency in need of a bailout will end up getting it

      and in two decades or so the dollar’s value will have declined massively

      Reply

      • Posted by NJ2AZ on August 4, 2019 at 6:56 pm

        PW bailouts may linger in uncertainty for a bit since the first states to blow up will almost certainly be deep blue

        but as soon as red states start going to i have little doubt the feds will swoop in

        Reply

        • Posted by NJ2AZ on August 4, 2019 at 7:40 pm

          *too

          i wish there was an edit function

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on August 4, 2019 at 7:50 pm

            All’s well that ends well. We’re not all that fanatical about Capitalization or punctuation anyway. It’s like the men’s locker room. Be yourself. Nobody will point and laugh.

      • Posted by PS Drone on August 4, 2019 at 9:25 pm

        It is not going to be 10 or 20 years. I think the SWHTF in 2025. Why? Medicare will have fully exhausted their BS “Trust” fund about then and the Feds will have to absorb the whole program. That and add to it the significant yearly increase in the burden of Medicaid and we are F’kd.

        Reply

        • Posted by NJ2AZ on August 4, 2019 at 9:29 pm

          Perhaps. I think before that happens we’ll see the treasury directly buying whatever bonds they need to (QE INFINITY AND BEYOND!) to keep the illusion up, so that will make the reckoning a bit of a slower bleed as the inflation takes a few years to really ramp up

          Reply

        • Posted by stanley on August 5, 2019 at 9:45 am

          It’s hard to say when our comeuppance arrives. It could be 25, later or much sooner. Many are counting on a continuation more or less of recent trends. I sure wouldn’t bet the farm on that, and if financial turbulence is especially severe it may become almost impossible for the government to bail out anything. There is no historical precedent for our present condition

          Reply

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on August 5, 2019 at 11:24 am

            It’s hard to say when our comeuppance arrives
            If a GLOBAL downturn arrives, it will wipe the US out IMO….And that is possible at ANY time. China, the nation that has grown fastest in GDP the lat 30 years, is heading into a downturn right now….

        • Posted by geo8rge on August 5, 2019 at 9:54 am

          “their BS “Trust” fund about then and the Feds will have to absorb the whole program”

          The Trust funds consist of accounting entries for Fed Gov Treasury debt so Fed Gov already pays SS only in the form of interest. A theory was that if the trust fund existed bond ‘vigilantes’ would see the debt piling up and demand higher interest rates on US government debt. The bond vigilantes either never existed or no longer exist.

          In short, the emptying of the trust fund would not seem to change anything. As Fed gov was paying the interest and principal to the trust fund. I wonder how many bureaucrats jobs depend on the bogus trust fund?

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 5, 2019 at 10:02 am

            I would agree that the Gov’t is likely crediting SS Trust fund balances with the Bond’s coupon rate, but what exactly do you mean by ……………. AND PRINCIPAL to the Trust fund?

          • Posted by geo8rge on August 6, 2019 at 12:43 pm

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Trust_Fund

            The Trust fund seems to have a balance but not formal bonds. The balance is awarded interest. So what is the principle and what is the interest amount isn’t presented separately? But being ‘intragovernmental’ debt, it is money owed by the US Federal Government to the SS department of the US Federal Government. It is not like a treasury bond which is US Federal Government debt owed to an outside agency.

      • Posted by Anonymous on August 6, 2019 at 5:47 am

        and they will still be blaming Trump!

        Reply

    • Posted by Bernman on August 6, 2019 at 7:11 pm

      You didn’t have a problem with Obama bailing out the markets with QE 1-2-3
      Hypocrites

      Reply

  3. Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on August 4, 2019 at 11:37 pm

    George Will is, and always has been, an idiot IMO.

    Reply

    • Posted by E on August 5, 2019 at 7:36 am

      Yea. Let’s see if you say the same thing at 4pm today when the market closes.

      Reply

      • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on August 5, 2019 at 11:21 am

        Doesn’t matter where the market closes today, tomorrow, next year. Will is still an idiot IMO.

        Reply

        • Posted by E on August 5, 2019 at 1:23 pm

          He and every advisor close to Trump told him to back off the tariffs. A recession and the gun issue, along with a Biden nomination may (or may not) derail his re election. Oh yeah….TL says I’m not supposed to talk about it (but she can off topic everything). She sucks

          Reply

          • Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on August 5, 2019 at 6:01 pm

            Trump is right on the tariffs. And China is now officially a “currency manipulator”, something they have been doing for decades. China’s market will fall faster, harder and further than our markets will. China is playing with fire.

  4. Posted by Rex the Wonder Dog! on August 5, 2019 at 11:32 am

    1) Bailout nation: though this is a particularly clumsy and transparent bailout it has become the go-to remedy for:

    Savings & Loan crooks
    U.S. Auto Industry
    Great Recession
    Fannie and Freddie
    Farmers

    You left off:
    1- AIG (100 cents on the dollar!)
    2- Goldman Sachs (AIG was bailed out 100 cents on the dollar for the benefit of GS)
    3- The rest of Wall Street (minus Lehman Bros and Bear Sterns).
    Goldman Sachs would have went BK if AIG was #1) NOT bailed out at all; or 2) bailed out at a reasonable 25 cents on the dollar. AIG would have done fine in BK court. So would have GS. But their share holders and partners would have lost everything (GS is still owned majority by LLP), and the companies would be far more efficient as a result. BK court cured debt issues and allows companies to rise form the ashes….

    Reply

    • Posted by E on August 5, 2019 at 1:27 pm

      Guess I’m also not allowed to mention that I also have 2 rescue dogs (and a rescue cat). Yep, I’m a hero. Lol. TL says it’s deflection from the pension crisis. Miss off topic herself. Windbag extraordinarie.
      TL seems to be to mean to own a pet. Prob a good thing she doesn’t. Let Stanley take her out and show her a good time, with a nice Franks and beans dinner.

      Reply

      • Posted by NJ2AZ on August 5, 2019 at 6:38 pm

        C’mon El Guapo, The Queen of Mean herself Leona Helmsley had a dog, whom she left something like $10M to! 🙂

        Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on August 5, 2019 at 8:09 pm

        Gee,I don’t believe I have EVER mentioned anything about a pet, my own, or anyone else’s.

        So I guess that just means that YOU ………. El gaupo ………. are going off the rails again. Not a good thing for a Police Officer.

        Please seek help.

        Reply

      • Posted by MJ on August 6, 2019 at 5:55 am

        Hey E, that’s great that you rescued some furry friends. Despite your sometimes
        bragging about your pension you sound like an alright kind of guy.

        Anyway, funny question…in reading all of these posts and articles, blogs, etc. I wonder if the Fed Reserve people, Trump people, etc sit around talking about the debt, the over bloated government, more debt, how to keep it all going?

        I wonder if they all sit around hoping on a wing and a prayer that it just keeps moving along:)

        Reply

        • Posted by E on August 6, 2019 at 7:19 am

          The furry friends were a follow up that occurred on the last post.

          I only try to get a rise outta TL 🤫 that’s the ONLY reason I try to come off as a big shot.

          Trump is putting all his chips in on this tariff war with China. If this goes south, and the economy tanks, between that and the need for some gun reform, and the constant lying, he will be at real risk for losing the election. Most people, my self included don’t really think he so great. I would rather see him get in than someone who will give reparations, continue to vilify hard workers who make society better as compared to those who don’t , and let illegals pour in and give free education from a liberal professor who will tell them how much I suck and the country is terrible.
          To be honest, when Obama was in there, conservatives all said the country sucked, “not my president” etc and criticized his every move as well. That will not change going forward no matter who gets in there. Remember Sarah Palin “Michelle Obama doesn’t want us to be able to eat brownies”. Stupid. We have an obesity crisis and she trying to push healthy eating. If republican said the same thing she would t have said a word. They are both crooks and for the most part all suck, even Trump. to answer your question, I think the economic advisor of both parties do try to convince the president as to what is right. But they also want to keep their jobs and will tell them what they want to hear. I lean right but too many people running are expected to be lock stock and barrel with towing the party line.

          Reply

  5. Meanwhile, Millennials are paid 25 percent less than Boomers had been paid at the same point in their lives.

    The life expectancy of those born after 1957 is falling.

    State and local government wages and salaries (those actually on the job and providing services) are at a 50 year low as a share of personal income.

    And federal spending on things other than seniors and the national debt is lower than it had been since before the Great Society.

    But who has the most need? Why of course, it’s Generation Greed, the beneficiary of all those other bailouts too.

    Reply

  6. Posted by E on August 5, 2019 at 8:34 pm

    Queen of Mean. Suits you!!

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 5, 2019 at 8:45 pm

      Figured I’d re-post this ……… and give El gaupo another chance to put together some semblance of a cohesive response……..

      ****************************************************************

      I posted THIS comment………….
      —————————————————-
      “Quoting El gaupo ……………

      “These are very measurable numbers when compared to el Gaupo.”

      “Measurable” yes, SIGNIFICANT NO …….. when measured against what they SHOULD BE measured, NOT the ludicrously excessive compensation of earlier Police hires, but against the Total Compensation of Private Sector workers in jobs requiring reasonably comparable experience, education, skills, and knowledge, and who retire at the SAME age and with the SAME years of service.”
      —————————————————-
      And you started your response with this ………….

      “Again, you don’t accept compromise.”
      ======================================

      What’s unfair about what I stated? Any “compromise” from that point implies that you are DESERVING of more. You’re NOT “special” and deserving of “more”.
      ————————————————————
      ————————————————————

      You are correct that there are no Private Sector jobs directly comparable to Police in that they are expected to protect us (e.g., run TOWARDS the shooter) at their own peril. But the occurrence of that peril (in any material way) is so small that US Gov’t BLS statistics show that there are many Private Sector jobs with both higher mortality risk and higher morbidity (injury/sickness) risk …. all of which pay MUCH MCUH less than Police.

      But there ARE many Private Sector jobs that require reasonably comparable experience, education, skills, and knowledge to the job of Policing, and it seems both reasonable and appropriate to base Police compensation by reference to the compensation of those individuals.

      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

      Then unfortunately you go back into one of your multiple-subject/throw-in-the-kitchen-sink (divert the reader’s focus) rants covering ………… handgun ownership, social media, legal marijuana, Trump, immigrants, liberals ………… and of course not missing an opportunity to throw in the hero card.

      Reply

      • Posted by E on August 6, 2019 at 7:22 am

        Doesn’t change my opinion that my compensation should be market based and NOT a result of a comparison between some non existent comparable private sector job.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on August 6, 2019 at 7:35 am

          You don’t men “market” based, you mean a continuation of being “Bribe/Racketeering” based.

          You know …………. the you-scratch-my-back and I’ll-scratch-yours between your Union and Elected officials.

          Reply

          • You say tomato. I say tomahto. Lol.
            I know of no other job that bases it’s pay off of some other job requiring the same education.
            A plumber is gonna get what a plumber gets. Not what an electrician gets. Or a architect. See how it works. Everyone can advocate for their own salary and bennies. Even the cops!!!

          • Posted by Anonymous on August 6, 2019 at 6:53 pm

            Whether it’s teachers or police officers, or custodians; if you lower the pay and get fewer qualified applicants, that’s market based. Classic supply and demand.

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 6, 2019 at 8:29 pm

            Quoting El gaupo ………….

            “I know of no other job that bases it’s pay off of some other job requiring the same education.”

            Well unfortunately, it’s NECESSARY for PUBLIC Sector jobs (to be compared to jobs with comparable requirement in the PRIVATE Sector) because it’s only in the PUBLIC arena that gross OVERCOMPENSATION is commonplace because employees get to Elected their bosses (who then due their bidding) via Union THREATS and BRIBES disguised are campaign contributions.
            ————————————————————————————
            Or as PSDrone so perfected stated it in a recent comment….

            ” That is where you and she (TL) differ – you actually think that your ridiculous pension is both earned and fully deserved. You and your LEO and FF buddies have used your exalted “first responder” bullshit status as a hammer to get emasculated town councils to cave to your irresponsible demands that have taken your overall compensation (pay and benefits) into the stratosphere. Your “pension” has been converted into a lottery prize for literally no valid reason whatsoever. It is not jealousy that motivates TL, it is sheer incomprehension and rage at irrational human behavior demonstrated over and over in the public sector.”

  7. Posted by Richard Dorrough on August 7, 2019 at 10:16 am

    So the taxpayers are to be victimized and forced to bailout Union crooks who have and are STILL looting and mismanaging our pension funds. These rats have been after a bailout for years and after their last attempt in 2010 with Casey and Pomeroy sat down and wrote MPRA to steal the money from retirees.The creation of MPRA,the non stop attack on ERISA,the financing of these efforts and this pension crisis is the work of our UNIONS. Now the well documented crook Hoffa and his NUCPP sellout whores have spent a boatload of Union members money WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT and waged a campaign to get this BS Hoffa Act into law. Not to help retirees but to line the Unions pocket so they can continue to run their criminal enterprises.Under the bills language if this legislation is passed the Central States fund they are all crying about will NOT even qualify for a loan.One part you are correct about is the buying of politicians by Unions and other special interest groups

    Reply

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