What Happens to Retirees When the Money Runs Out?

Along with Prichard, AL and later Detroit, MI it was Central Falls, RI in 2011 that became a cautionary tale for what happens when public pensions go unfunded and CBN decided to follow up:
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More follow up:

August, 2014: 40 public safety retirees get bumped up to 75 percent of their city pensions

July 1, 2016: latest actuarial valuation report with these excerpts starting with an explanation of how the funded ratio ‘soared’ to 24.2% in one year:

 

 

 

49 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by NJ2AZ on December 10, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    if i were a younger guy in one of these plans paying 10.5% while the older guys were paying 9.5% i’d be outraged

    part of me almost wishes i had stayed a teacher in NJ (a long time ago in a career far far away) just so i could raise hell now that i realize what a scam the whole thing is.

    Reply

  2. Posted by skip3house on December 10, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    NJ needs you .Come back? Or, stay in AZ as my youngest brother (70) has.since 1970s. He is the smart one in the family.

    Reply

    • Posted by El Gaupo on December 10, 2018 at 11:07 pm

      If he did stay in the teaching profession, NJ would have provided him with a better standard of living than his current state.
      Better to finish working here, THEN move there.
      Interesting article about credit card debt, the states with the highest credit card debt are all red states mostly in the so called booming Southeast. Why is that?

      Reply

      • Posted by Nj2AZ on December 10, 2018 at 11:25 pm

        sir Guapo,

        In my particular instance, I cannot see any way NJ would have afforded me a better way of life than I have out here, but everyone’s mileage may vary!

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on December 10, 2018 at 11:33 pm

          I meant that you would be better off here as a teacher than in AZ all things considered then of course better off as a retiree out there. If you didn’t stay as a teacher , than yes , mileage will vary

          Reply

          • Posted by NJ2AZ on December 10, 2018 at 11:53 pm

            Teacher standard of living is a complicated thing. I am married to one so i know they get paid little, but at the same time it seems almost obvious that having an army of $80k/yr teachers out here would have little impact in a lot of places.

            Mrs NJ2AZ teaches in a Title 1 school. No amount of spending is going to turn that place around because education is not a priority in the home for most of those kids. If we suddenly splurged on teachers Arizona would just become one big abbot district…..money down the drain.

      • Posted by stanley on December 11, 2018 at 9:44 am

        “Interesting article about credit card debt, the states with the highest credit card debt are all red states mostly in the so called booming Southeast.”

        Constable Gaupo Uno with the great NJ learnin, please explain how anyone can draw any conclusions based on one factor. So people in the SE have more credit card debt, which states have the most real estate debt? Which have the most student loan debt? Take NJ real estate for instance; what sort of debt is represented by real estate taxes? And what of the debt that is the unfunded pension promises (or underfunded)?

        And how objective can someone be who is receiving exorbitant union wages? Your mileage is obviously better than what the typical NJ taxpayer and wage earner gets. Why heck! You must be up around 200mpg! Leaning on that shovel and all!

        A person with the lower more realistic mpg will get a great lesson on how to make choices and manage his life and not wonder about when his pension gets whacked. Unions may raise your standard of living but they do not raise the standard of living.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on December 11, 2018 at 10:01 am

          Yeah, El gaupo’s “wages” are too high given the education, experience, knowledge and skills required of being as bedroom-community Police Officer, but when you a ADD-IN the HUGE incremental value of his DB pension & benefits, “exorbitant” is putting it mildly.

          I call it “ludicrously excessive” ……….. by every and any reasonable metric.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on December 11, 2018 at 10:03 am

            AND ……………….

            If NJ’s Taxpayer could find a way to only pay him HALF of his promised pension & benefits, it would STILL be and REMAIN excessive by AT LEAST a factor of 2 times.

          • Posted by El Gaupo on December 11, 2018 at 11:32 am

            You’ve never given a comparable private sector job since I’ve been on here. Not once. Because you don’t have one. If you want me to be completely honest, the wages are right where they should be. The pension benefits are very very good and I am very fortunate to be a beneficiary of it. There are you happy now. 😔. I don’t think you would miss too much talent if the pension was at 50% of final pay instead along with a decent 457 match. I know of no police force nationwide that does not offer at least 50% of final salary as a defined benefit.
            And the article dealt with credit card debt. I think we all can agree, that that is in fact the worst kind of debt that a household can have. Much more so then A mortgage or car payment even. It is usually a strong indicator of a families financial health. It appears that much of this debt is in right to work states. Hmmm. Most middle class folks up here don’t have it. That is a direct result of higher wages and to think otherwise is foolish. Of course folks should live within their means. I think though that this article mostly deals with people who charge stuff like food and utilities etc because there are lulls in their salary that they need to make up. If they are charging stuff they don’t need then shame on them.

          • Posted by stanley on December 11, 2018 at 3:20 pm

            “…the article dealt with credit card debt. I think we all can agree, that that is in fact the worst kind of debt that a household can have.”

            I would not agree to that. The student debt can’t be discharged in bankruptcy and in many cases bought overpriced and sometimes worthless instruction. And the “debt” owed to taxing authorities has pretty much taken over ownership of residential properties in some communities.

            And unless you are working in a lending capacity, you don’t know about the finances of others. There are some really frightful finances out there and it is probably at least as bad up north as down south.

          • Posted by Anonymous on December 11, 2018 at 4:45 pm

            Generally speaking Stanley, large amounts of credit card debt usually means living not within ones means or unemployment etc.
            student loans usually involve someone trying to better themselves. More often than not it is not a waste of money and folks benefit from it. Of course sometimes it is wasted and can be just as much an albatross.
            I think the real issue is that most of you on here except for MJ, Earth and nj2az see me and my pensions as the enemy and honestly can’t bring yourselves to agree with me no matter what because you hate everything I represent when it comes to my job. I.e moocher etc. I’m just a regular schmoe doing my job. None of this is my fault. But it keeps you from agreeing with me on anything (except maybe TL and trump). Any financial advisor will tell you that credit card debt (I don’t mean using a card I mean accruing thousands of dollars in debt and paying the minimum or near it) is the most toxic form of debt there is.

          • Posted by Tough Love on December 11, 2018 at 8:49 pm

            Quoting El gaupo ………….

            “You’ve never given a comparable private sector job since I’ve been on here. Not once. Because you don’t have one.”

            I have never stated that there are Private Sector jobs “comparable” to that of Police Officer ………. but I have (MANY TIMES) stated that there are MANY jobs (in different fields of work) that require comparable experience, education, skills, and knowledge ………. and in many cases equal or greater risk of injury or death.

            And I can’t think of ANY that compensate (in wages + pensions +benefits) even remotely close to the compensation now granted NJ Police Officers.

            You are VASTLY overcompensated.

            ————————————-

            And responding to your point that 50% of final pay might be acceptable ……….

            50% of pay starting at the very young ages at which MOST NJ Police Officers retire (and begin collecting an actuarial unreduced pension) has a VALUE just about TWICE what it would be if it was not collectable (w/o correct actuarial reduction) until age 65 …….. the Normal Retirement age for those in the Private Sector.

            So yeah, “maybe” 50% of final pay at age 65 and with no less than 35 years of service. Welcome to the world WE (the Taxpayers) live in.

          • Posted by Tough Love on December 11, 2018 at 9:00 pm

            Quoting El gaupo ………….

            “I think the real issue is that most of you on here except for MJ, Earth and nj2az see me and my pensions as the enemy and honestly can’t bring yourselves to agree with me no matter what because you hate everything I represent when it comes to my job. I.e moocher etc. I’m just a regular schmoe doing my job. ”

            I clearly do not (and I doubt any other commentators) ….” hate everything I represent when it comes to my job”. We also recognize that you are simply …. “a regular schmoe doing my job.”

            But that does NOT change the fact that, because of the underhanded deal-making and collusion between your Union (or “Association” if that makes you feel better) and our Elected Officials, you have been granted ABOVE-appropriate wages, and LUDICROUSLY excessive pensions and benefits.

            Not YOU, but your pension & benefits are INDEED the “enemy”.

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on December 12, 2018 at 12:37 am

            It’s the uniform!

            What is the comparable private sector job to a NYC sanitation worker?

            “If you have 20 or more years of Allowable Sanitation Service, regardless of age, you are eligible to receive a Service Retirement Benefit equal to:
            • 50% times Final Average Salary (FAS) for the first 20 years
            of Allowable Sanitation Service,”

            “The Sanitation 20-Year Retirement Program is available ONLY to employees in the uniformed-force of the NYC Department of Sanitation.”

            1) If you have twenty years …at any age… you can retire with 50 percent of FAS.

            B) If you had service as a police officer or firefighter, then transfer to a uniformed sanitation worker, the time as PO or FF can count toward your twenty year total.

            It’s the uniform.

          • Posted by Tough Love on December 12, 2018 at 1:29 am

            SD ………..

            ONLY in the PUBLIC Sector is 20 years (rarely beyond the early 50s, and sometime in the 40s) considered a career worthy retirement at 50% of pay.

            In the Private Sector sector (other than for the 6% of Private Sector workers in Unions today) it’s typically 65 with 35+ years of service.

            How do you spell MOOCHERS ?

  3. Posted by geo8rge on December 11, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Although the bankruptcy settlement called for 50% pension cuts the state legislature immediately appropriated monies to lower that to 25% cuts for police and fire and maybe even reinstated COLAs. I think teachers are in a statewide plan. If I am right teachers had no reduction, police/fire had 25%, and other municipal employees had a 50% cuts of cash benefits (not healthcare) from the bankruptcy.

    None of this really applies to NJ where the issues are mostly state not municipal and Central Falls is so small a bankruptcy was irrelevant but also at least the police and fire could be partially bailed out.

    Chafee signs law giving retired Central Falls police, firefighters pension supplement

    http://www.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/content/20140827-chafee-signs-law-giving-retired-central-falls-police-firefighters-pension-supplement.ece

    CENTRAL FALLS
    Plan would hike retired police, firefighter pensions
    $2.6-million plan calls for average bump of $5,000 each for five years, plus COLAs, for more than 100 retirees in the financially strapped city

    http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VFBKLzIwMTEvMTIvMTUjQXIwMDEwMA%3D%3D&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

    Reply

  4. Posted by El Gaupo on December 11, 2018 at 11:32 am
    You’ve never given a comparable private sector job since I’ve been on here. Not once.

    Your GED Cop job is no different from the construction trades. Unskilled/semi-skilled blue collar jobs just about anyone could/can do; anyone with a GED or HS diploma.

    Oh, except the construction trades are: 1) far MORE dangerous (statistically) than your chair shaped fanny cop job ; 2) and far more physically demanding.
    Now quit your sniveling you little whiner wannabe.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on December 12, 2018 at 7:15 am

      Keeping telling yourself you’re a winner Rex. Maybe you can will that to be true. Lol. What no piggie pics? You’re slipping my friend. Maybe you actually have a job interview coming up? Maybe? Hope you can move outta moms basement. In the meantime, can you provide stats on the education level of most police officers these days?
      This college educated officer has never had to worry about paying a bill since I got hired. Provided well for my family. Haha.
      You sound you couldn’t get laid in a morgue. And probably look that way too. The type who couldn’t get laid in a women’s prison with a fist full of pardons. Haha. That’s what happens when you never leave mommies basement my friend.
      If these commentators were honest, everyone of them would probably say as a person, you sound like much more of a loser than I would ever sound like. Even TL respects a family man over a guy peeking out the casement window of mommies basement. Lol

      Reply

      • LOL… Truth Hurts! Go ahead-Dispute anything I just posted!

        El Guapo= GED job with MAJOR “Entitlement Mentality”.

        But I never knew your “real” name until now though. It appears someone videotaped you at work, on the job doing what you do best…Hi “Pumba” aka El Guapo 🙂

        Reply

  5. Posted by stanley on December 12, 2018 at 3:07 pm

    “What Happens to Retirees When the Money Runs Out?

    A. Pick up pop bottles.
    B. Get a paper route.
    C. Door greeter at Walmart.
    D. Baking cakes for dummies.
    E. Panhandling at an Xway exit.
    F. Write a book: Panhandling for Dummies.
    G. Don’t retire with just one leg under your retirement stool.
    Diversified retirement plans.
    H. Assume the union will always be there for you.
    I. Assume that Uncle Sugar will always have more candy to pass out.
    J. Tar Babies for Dummies?
    K. Write to Dear Abby?
    L. Party like it’s 99 and depend on others to keep the keg full.

    Reply

    • Posted by stanley on December 12, 2018 at 4:18 pm

      They don’t have to get into the highway robbery type pensions. The regular pensions in many cases are scandalous enough. The idea that someone can work for a community or organization for 20 or 30 years and is then to be supported forever and ever! Ridiculous! Want a retirement? Save some money.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on December 12, 2018 at 4:32 pm

        Quoting …………..

        “They don’t have to get into the highway robbery type pensions. The regular pensions in many cases are scandalous enough.”

        THAT’s the problem ……… at EVERY (yes EVERY) income level the RICHNESS of the pension “formula” and it’s “provisions” (e.g VERY young age at which an actuarially UNREDUCED pension can begin being collected) results in a pension with a value-upon-retirement that is TYPICALLY 3 to 4 times (4 to 6 times for Safety workers) greater than that typically granted Private Sector workers who are IDENTICALLY situated (in wages, years of service, and age at retirement).

        Sure, it WOULD BE “ok” if it was the Public Sector workers who paid for MOST of that VERY VERY VERY generous pension, but they don’t. All of their own contribution (INCLUDING all the expected investment earnings thereon) RARELY accumulate to a sum upon retirement sufficient to buy more than 10% to 20% of their promised pension. It’s the TAXPAYERS who are handed the bill for the 80% to 90% balance.

        The whole structure is patently absurd …………. and very clearly the result of the unholy alliance between the Public Sector Unions and our Elected Officials ………. with the former BUYING the favorable votes of the latter (on Public Sector pay, pensions, and benefits) with BRIBES disguised as campaign contributions and election support.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on December 12, 2018 at 4:36 pm

          And who but PUBLIC Sector workers gets free or heavily-subsidized employer-sponsored retire healthcare benefits today ………. certainly NOT Private Sector workers ! ………. with an ADDITIONAL bill of often $200,000 to $400,000 just handed to the Taxpayers.

          Reply

          • NO private sector business have ANY “fringe benefits” that even come CLOSE to what the pubic sector has. It is virtually impossible because in real life there are financial constraints which the gov does NOT have. If you had unskilled/semi-skilled private sector front line, rank and file employees $100K salaries and $100K pensions (2%-3% @ age 50, or after just 20 years of “service credit”), 4-8 weeks PAID vacation, 12 sick leave days, 14 PAID holidays, you would be OUT of business, BK, in less than 24 hours. In real life you must compete in a free and open market, which does not allow the employer to make unskilled/semi-skilled, front line, rank and file employees millionaires. But that is REAL LIFE, not the Fantasyland of gov employment. The SAD part is these public employees actually start to believe their unskilled/semi-skilled rank and file job are worth millionaire compensation.Their “Entitlement Mentality” becomes some sort of demented mental disorder. I mean seriously, just look at Stephen and El Guapo (and seesaw), they actually BELIEVE>>> in their hearts, **honestly believe** (IMO anyway) that their unskilled jobs are worthy of millions of dollars in compensation. And when you are that out of touch with reality and real life you can indeed label it a mental disorder….

        • Posted by Anonymous on December 12, 2018 at 5:25 pm

          Love the EVERY…YES, EVERY comment. Lol. Ease up TL. You’ve managed to do fine all these years that you’ve been commenting. Watch your blood pressure cutie pe-tutie.
          As for Rex, (your hero), the forty year old virgin, he thinks we all have GEDs. Lol. He thinks the job is so easy. In real life, I’m sure he is a beta male who has never had a woman in his life. Hey Rex, the meatloaf will be ready at 6.
          Love the piggie pics though. They are kinda funny. With all the overtime this year, I’m over $200k already with 2 checks left. Age 47. Looking to pack it in in a few years and begin having my family medical paid for in full again and I’ll begin collecting my $120 k pension if I stay 30. More if I can move up a rank. Kids will be outta college. Mortgage paid off 2 years later. Wife making decent money. And most important we are all healthy. Aren’t you happy for me??? I hope you all have nothing but health and success in your life as well. In contrast to ear to ear grinner TL.
          Rex is you biggest fan TL. Let’s be honest. Out of the two of us, who has it going on and who is the absolute dork? I’m a super fun guy in real life. The life of the party type of guy. A magnet at the blackjack table. A big hit. Super coach of the year multiple times…and wait for it…..I’ve asked to represent my town on the town council. A beloved figure.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on December 12, 2018 at 6:08 pm

            Quoting El gaupo ……………

            “They don’t have to get into the highway robbery type pensions. The regular pensions in many cases are scandalous enough.”

            Yes, you may be ALL of those things.

            But for completeness, you need to add ………. “moocher”.

          • Posted by Tough Love on December 12, 2018 at 6:09 pm

            Correction, the words in quotation marks were supposed to be ……….

            “I’m a super fun guy in real life. The life of the party type of guy. A magnet at the blackjack table. A big hit. Super coach of the year multiple times…and wait for it…..I’ve asked to represent my town on the town council. A beloved figure.”

          • Posted by El Gaupo on December 12, 2018 at 6:56 pm

            Lol. I figured that TL. I’ll throw moocher in there for you, to make you happy. And by you agreeing that I am or at least you think I am(I am) all those things, you have answered my question as to who you think has it going on more. Me or the angry puppy. (Who tries to sound smart between his rants, but fails—mommy must have made him do his own laundry tonight). I am the type of man you are still glad exist. A beacon of light. Rex is just, eh, not so great. In fact, he is the one with a mental disorder. Afraid to move out of his folks basement and still a virgin at 40.

          • Posted by Tough Love on December 12, 2018 at 7:34 pm

            So El gaupo ………….. (per YOU):

            (a) Rex is ……… “the one with a mental disorder. Afraid to move out of his folks basement and still a virgin at 40.”

            Do you know him ? If not, what’s with the very personal insults?

            (b) And you are ……….. “A beacon of light. ”

            Really ? Many might conclude that it is YOU with the mental disorder.

          • I’m a super fun guy in real life. The life of the party type of guy. A magnet at the blackjack table. A big hit. Super coach of the year multiple times…and wait for it…..I’ve asked to represent my town on the town council. A beloved figure.”
            Most definitely a mental disorder. I mean seriously El Guapo/Pumba, you are the benchmark public sector employee with entitlement mentality, and mentally suspect. Serious. WHO would write nonsense like this? Besides someone with a mental disorder.

            “Super coach of the year”…Hahaha… Man did that kill me! Glad to know you and the rest of the GED Kop Klowns have your own T-Ball league 🙂

            OK, bye bye “Pumba”. And PLEASE, at least try hitting the gym and treadmill… for even 30 minutes… instead of snoozing all day long 🙂

          • Posted by El gaupo on December 13, 2018 at 11:13 am

            @TL “if not what’s with the personal insults”. Uh? Hmmm….don’t see you defending me when he calls me Kop Klown, GED loser, and best of all Fat Lazy Pig. Lol. Scroll up and you’ll see. I’ve been called dramatically worse. However, usually when someone resorts to personal insults (which he started) it is a result of an underlying issue. In this case, living with mommy as a 40 year old virgin. I don’t wish any will on the guy and encourage well thought out rebuttals and the insults are funny I can surely take it w no offense. None of it is true. And it certainly doesn’t make me feel mad or sad or anything but a little chuckle. I have a wonderful family and a pretty decent job. I’ve been blessed. Particularly with the former. It’s all just stupid banter on here anyway. You know that.

          • Posted by Anonymous on December 13, 2018 at 11:26 am

            I’m ok with being the guy you all love to hate. Bottom line is more than likely I’ll get 100% of the pension that I am due. If not, I’m prepared. Just like I’m sure you will be just fine in your retirement. Most people commenting on here wouldn’t be if they were indeed truly struggling. In fact as you know 99% of folks don’t give a rats ass either way about this issue enough to comment on here. In fact, I appear to be the only pfrs member on here. So…as John candy said “you wanna hurt me? Go ahead and hurt me. I’m an easy target”. Lol. Truth be told you all when I respond. It’s no fun reading comments of 5 or 6 people that agree with you. “Bill of good”. “Total reset”. “Gold and silver”. Total doom and gloom. Lol. I prefer to go a different way.

          • Did NOT call EG a fat lazy pig. I posted a sarcastic video, and EG knows that. The title was not mentioned by me at all.

          • BTW EG- if you read my earlier comment, I said you, and your brethren at the public sector, actually start to believe your jobs are worthy of the compensation being paid. There is NO doubt in my mind you actually, in your heart, believe that. But my opinion is that you are clueless, and these jobs are not better than ANY blue collar “occupation” (which is exactly what they are) in the private sector. And in fact are similar in every respect (education, training, skill set) as the construction trades. Sure I tossed in a silly video, but only AFTER you ASKED me to. And I was not the one who started the insults, that is on you 100%. GED cop job is not an insult to you, just a fact. You take issue with my factual statements about your job. SO ease up, take a chill tab, and get on that treadmill Fatty 🙂

          • Posted by El Gaupo on December 13, 2018 at 3:06 pm

            Rex. It is an often used line the ol moms basement nonsense. I have absolutely no way of knowing nor do I care if you are a 40 yr old virgin. And btw plan on getting on the treadmill right after work today. 🥴. I am somewhere between a fatty and the steroid using officer you said I was in another post. Probably smack dab in the middle physically. Hey, at least you know what I do for a living. We don’t what you do. Not one on here doubts if anything I say is legit it at least thought to be legit by me. I have heard I am overpaid since I was in the academy back in the 90s when Chiefs were making barely $100k. Over the years I have found that most of the people complaining about my salary were right leaning, libertarian conservatives. I.e. (folks like Stanley once admitted he was) that while conservatives, they really don’t like the idea of authority and strongly value private property rights and firearms rights. The liberals by and large only complain about the authority being brutal. They seem to love telling people what to do. Both sides have folks who just don’t like police. Teachers and firemen also are in there because they are somewhat figures of authority.

          • Posted by El Gaupo on December 13, 2018 at 3:08 pm

            By the way….I’m general, I am about as moderate as they come. Wackos on both sides for sure…..

  6. Posted by Tough love for tough love (and rex too) on December 13, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    Hey TL,
How could anyone tire of your one line of thinking? LOL, I laugh so much reading pretty much the same thing over and over. For everyone on this site, TLs single line of diatribe is truly truly barren. Barren from where it springs and barren for how much it lacks some of the fundamental ideas that form the basis of the republic. Help be thy brothers keeper…or TLs version, sc4ew everyone else. See, TL gets on here talks about forcing a minority of workers into abject poverty, at the same time as a self employed business person sucks tax revenues from the state through the largess of the tax code that allow s/e business owners to write off air. Yeah, you took a risk and deserve the goods, but you and I both know how much is skimmed from the coffers by those deductions that stretch off into the endless sunset. Empty. Immoral. About taking from someone else but not me. Just to quiet your paranoia, I’m private. I’m sure I’ll get paragraphs of the same. Barren they are and barren at the core is what drives them out.
    The other side of TL’s coin is that while the middle has been gutted over the last 25 years, it’s a race to the bottom. Don’t you know? TL believes you should be grateful to be a (wage) slave and pay your employer for the right of giving up you wages for free. Serf. Those publics should to be brought down to everyone else’s level…spoken like a s/e owner siphoning off funds from the middle through the largess of the (tax) code. Haven’t you read (TL)? They’re coming with pitchforks for the likes of you and me.
    Not sure if you read the NJScotus position, they won’t insert themselves into the legislative process, the language of the majority position stated the pubs have ALREADY earned their wages that are to be paid. Where oh where will the money come from indeed. As I have said over and over, the fed will not bail the state. The state chooses politically to ignore a funding item until it’s a crises. It’s a shame for ALL of us they turn their backs on all of us. (Calm down TL, I’m private) In order to cover the pensions the state will shift pubs onto the exchanges. Pubs will most likely need to face reductions of 30% in order to keep the funds realistically solvent. Folks on here inflate numbers which are actuarial low, into a place where no solutions exist, while larger numbers make them feel better about walking away from responsibility. Taxes will be raised and/ or assets (like the TP or GS Pkwy) will be sold or shifted as dedicated funding. Corzine’s idea of securitizing flows from the roads either for the Trans. Trust fund or towards pensions was ahead of its time even though it still remains unpalatable politically.
    A solution that is fair to the existing pubs who have earned their wages and is generationally fair to those behind is a moral way forward. TL can crow all she wants that pubs should get less, but as I said above, she thinks we should all accept this slide we are on to the bottom. The pitchforks are coming if those who know continue to want to pretend not to see and listen to the echo chamber as the footsteps only get closer.

    Reply

  7. Posted by skip3house on December 14, 2018 at 9:26 am

    From a current candidate … It will be less painful for millions of taxpayers to make up the losses then it would be to rob thousands of state employees who expect a pension during their retirement.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on December 14, 2018 at 3:42 pm

      Gee. I wonder whose votes that candidate is seeking to have support his candidacy ?

      Reply

    • Posted by PS Drone on December 14, 2018 at 4:20 pm

      And that is a valid comment if we were talking about “pensions”… you know, like Social Security only more generous. But we are not talking about pensions. Those begin paying benefits at age 65 (or thereabouts) or earlier if appropriate benefit haircuts are applied. We are talking about salary continuation plans that begin paying IMMEDIATELY upon completion of 20, 25 or 30 years of “service”. Those are going broke because they were concocted in a corrupt, wet dream put together by crooked lying politicians and greedy, corrupt, self-serving unions.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on December 14, 2018 at 8:29 pm

        Perfectly Stated !

        AND ………. we must keep in mind, that while INDIVIDUALLY, the workers didn’t have much direct say in this, THEY ARE indeed the financial beneficiaries (via those ludicrously excessive pensions) of this crooked/thieving structure ….. so THAT is where Taxpayers rightly should look to right-this-wrong, by reneging on the 50%-75% share of these promises that assuredly would NOT have been granted in the absence of the Collusion between the Public Sector Unions and our cooked/self-interested Elected Officials

        Reply

        • Posted by skip3house on December 15, 2018 at 11:40 am

          Think Trolley Problem…AI… Is 15 pedestrians getting mildly injured better than the driver experiencing something far more catastrophic?

          Reply

  8. Posted by Stephen Douglas on December 14, 2018 at 11:01 am

    Current President on when the debt crisis blows up…

     “Yeah, but I won’t be here,”

    Same as for the pension crisis.

    Reply

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