What Matters to NJSLOM Meeting Attendees

The New Jersey State League of Municipalities Annual Conference ends today and after looking over their sessions program and reading Governor Murphy’s lunch speech, I thought….
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There was only one session having anything to do with the single biggest issue facing the state and it had to compete for attendees with the session on craft breweries.

As for Governor Murphy’s remarks, nothing on pensions (or much else aside from Christie/Trump-bashing):

  • We are not spiking any footballs, but so far, so good.
  • We will not reflect the hyper-partisanship that has eroded our national dialogue. The name calling is in our past.
  • I have steadfastly refused to mirror the spectacle we see daily in Washington, and which we have seen on our TV screens for the past few years.
  • I believe that we can accomplish more by having open and honest discussions – honest to goodness conversation – rather than simply lobbing missives at each other.*
  • The economy we inherited in January enjoyed the following national rankings in the previous decade … job growth, we were 42nd in the nation … poverty rate, 47th … wage growth, 49th.
  • I got elected to fix our economy and that is how I spend most of my time as governor.
  • They have spent the past six months traveling across the state, meeting with many of you and your colleagues. And, later this month, we will institute our first shared services symposium to move from conversations to action.**
  • Please remember, if you remain skeptical – we are not inventing marijuana.
  • We are undoing, bit by bit, the poor decisions of the past that were made in the name of political ambition, and are replacing them with sound policies educated by listening and a desire to simply do the right thing. A moneyball mindset plus good intentions – instead of endless political shenanigans – lead to sustained economic growth.

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* This from a guy who speaks in bromides and runs when there is the slightest chance a tough questions might pop up.

** In Murphy’s world holding a symposium means action? By definition, a symposium is having a conversation.

 

 

44 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Tough Love on November 16, 2018 at 9:55 pm

    Off topic…………… but WORTHWHILE reading:

    Title:

    The Unsustainable Situation With State And Local Pension Liabilities

    Link:

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4222167-unsustainable-situation-state-local-pension-liabilities?page=1

    Reply

    • Posted by geo8rge on November 18, 2018 at 10:17 am

      The recent ‘snow-pocalyse’ was probably the result of metro NYC governments not having the money to prepare for an unlikely but possible snowstorm by preparing the salt spreaders and crews. They gambled and they lost, but the reason they had to gamble was they were out of money. The unsustainability is now a real problem. It seems every few years now there is one of these snow-pocalyses, which I don’t remember from say 30 yrs ago. Again I think the lack of preparation is really a form of gambling on the weather being good rather than spend money in preparation of bad weather.

      Reply

      • Posted by El Gaupo on November 18, 2018 at 10:45 am

        In general, the roads are cleared faster and better BY FAR from when I was a kid 35/40 years ago. Also no one had 4 wheel drive then.(maybe people get a false sense of security?) Perhaps winters were indeed worse, but usually roads are easily passable within 8-10 hours of even the worst storms we see(not including trees down etc., just your basic foot/18 inch of snow.). That being said, the state did a terrible job with this one. But in general, people are more impatient both while driving and while waiting for the roads to get clear. Absent an emergency, when they tell you to stay off the roads and you don’t, I feel as much sympathy for you as the guy who “rides out the storm” and needs to be rescued by boat during a hurricane.

        Reply

        • Posted by El Gaupo on November 18, 2018 at 10:53 am

          Never in my 23 years of service has a decision to call out the salters, etc been influenced by money. Shortly after the snow sticks we call out the salters. The Dow obviously would have everything set up and ready to roll upon their arrival at the yard. The Dpw in general does a good job clearing the roads, people just expect things to be done quicker than a generation or two ago. Again, not enough resources were deployed in this particular case. Other areas, including law enforcement,(as we saw with the ill suited lay offs in cities when fatso was in charge—despite sandy he had his own storm issues—disneyworld and the famous “what do they want me to do grab a mop?” Comment during his pathetic presidential run) have been hit with money issues. Mostly agencies like child services, nj transit, pathetic infrastructure investment etc. Generally speaking, your local tax dollar gives you the best bang for your back.

          Reply

          • Posted by geo8rge on November 19, 2018 at 3:34 am

            “Shortly after the snow sticks we call out the salters.”

            My personal observation is the roadway is treated before the snow hits to prevent it from sticking. This treatment may not be rock salt. It looks to me like the forecast they were working with was snow followed by rain so they gambled and didn’t spend the money treating the road surface. The cold lasted longer than expected causing chaos on untreated roads. Not treating the roadway and allowing it to freeze also damages the roadway so future costs will be higher or sooner. But again the snow-pocalyses are coming more frequently than I perhaps imperfectly remember from my youth.

  2. Posted by Eric on November 18, 2018 at 8:21 am

    Tough Love:
    The problem with the inflation scenario as a “fix” to the severe pension underfunding issue, is that the rest of the country is mired in low paying jobs that have little to no prospect of having wages increase to correspond with massive inflation. This is not the 1970s, where employers matched inflation with significant pay raises. The United States economy has been “gutted” of highly payed jobs, since the manufacturing base has been destroyed by numerous politicians enacting treaties. China “won” economically by securing the world’s manufacturing base. Production moved to China.
    Even if Trump were to “bring back jobs”, the highly paid GM assembly/union jobs are long gone since robotics have replaced union labor.
    The chart regarding New Jersey, does not indicate that pensioners, in the State of New Jersey, have a property interest in the corpus ie the money left in the fund. There is no contractual protection via the Spina decision.
    Eric

    Reply

  3. Posted by Tough Love on November 18, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    Wow, the Blog Post from Actuary Mary Pat Campbell Blog (post linked by Stanley above and repeated below) is AWESOME………….. and not just because I too have brought up many of her points and support almost all of her proposals. Here’s the link:

    http://stump.marypat.org/article/1094/addressing-objections-rebutting-the-usual-story

    I STRONGLY encourage anyone interested in getting a scholarly/unbiased critique of the Public Sector pension problem to read it.
    —————————————————————–

    She and I are “on the same page” on almost all of this. An IMPORTANT example:

    From her linked Blog article:

    Under “CONVERTING TO DC PLANS”, the NASRA’s suggestion is to …………

    “4. The appropriate response to a public pension funding problem is to properly fund the plan, make needed adjustments, or both”

    Mary Pat Campbell’s response to that is ………

    “4. I agree here, too — and the needed adjustments are risk-sharing. A variable component floating above a relatively low guarantee means costs won’t spiral, and that the pension plan is sustainable.”

    ======================================================

    Did you see the word “low” in her response?

    Several times in the past month or 2, I have commented that DB Pensions (of the Final Average Salary variety ….. which is the type almost always granted Public Sector workers) CAN indeed work IF they operated like a Policyholder-Dividend-Paying Life/Health/Casualty insurance police issued by a MUTUAL insurance company (one essentially “owned” by the Policy-owners, NOT Shareholders).

    Such policies are “priced” on a CONSERVATIVE basis (meaning there is PLENTY of “cushion” in the annual police-premium to cover all but EXTREMELY unusual/unexpected adverse experience). To “make-up” for the very “conservative” premium (to the policy-owners who are also the “owner” of the company) an annual Policyholder “Dividend” is determined and distributed to policyholders. It has “worked” great and is time-proven for over 150 years…………. You “price” on very conservative basis and then (to the extent ACTUAL developing experience justifies it), pay an annual “dividend” to reflect (and distribute) the share of the conservative premium ultimately found to NOT be needed.

    The analogy in a DB pension Plans is EXACTLY as Mary Pat proposed ……

    “A variable component floating above a relatively low guarantee”

    Which means ……….. the Pension Plan Participants would ONLY get (in the case of pension Plans) an increase in “benefits” (in one form or another) above the “low” guaranteed-benefit level if (and ONLY IF) actual developing (mostly investment and mortality) experience is better (over a rolling 3 to 5 year period if done properly) than that assumed in the ARC calculation associated with fully funding the lower “guaranteed” benefits.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on November 18, 2018 at 11:13 pm

      As a FOLLOW-UP to my above comment, I thought it helpful to provide a “reference point” as to what the “low” guaranteed-level DB pension (as a % of final salary) might be, ESPECIALLY because there is no doubt Public Sector Unions/workers would advocate for a level assuredly MUCH GREATER than what is needs to be and SHOULD be.

      A reasonable UPPER LIMIT (and many unbiased observers would likely believe that such a reference is on balance …. TOO HIGH) could be ascertained by answering the question …………. in the long-gone hey-day of Private Sector DB pensions, what % of “final salary” did THEIR DB pensions provide?

      From the following article in the 3-rd paragraph (published 2 days ago in Barron’s) and linked here:

      https://www.barrons.com/articles/the-pension-myth-and-the-financial-realities-1542403959

      “Based on BLS data from the 1970s and 1980s, professionals needed a 30-year tenure before they were eligible for a pension that amounted to 30% of their last year’s income. ”

      How much do typical PUBLIC Sector DB Plans pay ……… on a GUARANTEED basis ………. as a % of Final salary ?

      65%, 75% sometime 90% of Safety workers.

      ———————————-

      And a VERY NON-TRIVIAL last point …………

      Adding a COLA benefit to an otherwise IDENTICAL Plan w/o COLA increases the Plans’ total cost by from 25 to 35% (with the higher %s associated with the younger-age retirements typically granted Safety workers).

      While PUBLIC Sector Plans almost always include COLAs, PRIVATE Sector Plans almost NEVER do, so that (above-noted) BLS figure of 30% of final salary for the 30-year service PRIVATE Sector worker (in a PRIVATE Plan w/o COLAs) equates to roughly 20% to 25% of final pay for a PUBLIC Sector Plan (with COLAs)….. “perhaps” a reasonable UPPER LIMIT for GUARANTEED benefits for Plan that includes COLA increases (now suspended in NJ).

      Reply

  4. Posted by Stephen Douglas on November 19, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    Yes, the post is awesome, but most of this information has been around for decades. Pension reform is critical. Many of the same ideas are found in Girard Miller’s 2012 “Pension Puffery” (risk sharing, lower discount rates, pension caps, etc.) among other places. The concept is basic, execution is the problem. Pension reform, not pension reduction per se. While $150,000 salaries and $100,000 pensions are the lightning rods, they are not the norm.

    Yes, pension liabilities are increasing despite, as MPC says, some systems paying ersatz “one hundred percent” contributions. And, some systems will certainly end up reducing payments even to current retirees. One might deduce from this that pensions and/or total compensation is excessive, but that doesn’t necessarily follow logically, and it would still be difficult or impossible to prove empirically.

    Just do a web search with… “police recruitment down”… take your pick of articles

    http://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-hiring-police-officers.html

    And it’s not just police. Teachers, nurses, lawyers, etc. are not looking at studies and actuarial tables. They are looking at real life and voting with their feet, either to better private jobs, or to bidding wars with other cities.

    Reply

    • While $150,000 salaries and $100,000 pensions are the lightning rods, they are not the norm.
      So said the Gov employee!
      AVERAGE CHP patrol officer (lowest sworn LEO position at CHP) in 2015 with the ridiculously low 30 years of service = $104K at age 53.

      Not the “norm”, right!

      Reply

    • Posted by El Gaupo on November 19, 2018 at 10:41 pm

      Bravo. Earth would be proud. You have successful debunked the myth perpetrated on this blog by TL that thousands of people are lining up to take these jobs. See how much worse it is if you take a pension away. Bottom line—it is the primary job of government to provide safety for its populace. The number one thing!!! Without it civilization does not exist as you know it. There is a price to be paid for that. That price is how Ever much it costs to retain talented officers. Not “comparable private sector job” nonsense.
      That’s why the teachers got whatever they asked for in these backwards states. Because no one was willing to take the job under the current pay scale. No one qualified at least. Lol. TL KNOWS this. She is just bitter her job doesn’t give her a nice pension.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on November 19, 2018 at 11:43 pm

        “Successfully” ? ……………….Really ? ………………. lol

        Reply

      • Posted by Stanley on November 20, 2018 at 9:13 am

        El Gaupo Uno: ” You have successful debunked the myth perpetrated on this blog by TL that thousands of people are lining up to take these jobs.”

        Constable, hopefully your police work is better than your social studies commentary.

        Reply

        • Constable, hopefully your police work is better than your social studies commentary.
          El Idiot is probably a HS drop out with a GED- and major Entitlement Mentality. I am SURE the ONLY way he was ever hired into his gov workfare job is because of nepotism or cronyism, which is how 90% of ALL Gov cop and firewhiner jobs are filled. If they hired people purely on merits, and merit based testing, El Idiot would not even crack the 90th percentile…..

          Reply

      • El gaupo, I don’t believe that TL ever said to take away pensions…did she???? but rather they need to be significantly reformed to remain sustainable. Many states are borrowing money to pay for pension contributions, budget shortfalls, etc. and that’s never good when an entity has to borrow to pay its bills.

        I think a better solution is to pay teachers more and let them plan their own retirements. As for health care, I don’t think they should have anything more than what the average taxpayer has………get rid of the top heavy administrators that do nothing to actually educate kids and I’m sure many more cuts can be made, consolidate where appropriate……….As for the cops, who knows! I’d rather have a well trained cop on the street than a bunch of school administrators and over saturated public workers

        Just MHO

        Reply

        • Posted by El gaupo on November 20, 2018 at 2:08 pm

          Most of the time it is to get a rise out of her and point out the she is not right all the time(or even most of the time). Lol. And yes I meant successfully, not successful—a typo of course.
          But she has advocated for a hard freeze on DB plans and no new hires to get a pension. She also believes these jobs are so great for even new hires that there are hundreds of applicants for every job. Maybe during a recession. Evidence is showing otherwise. She doesn’t want to hear anything that doesn’t fit into her agenda.
          Police work, anyway, has faced pension cuts(cola- for now) 35% premium sharing, loss of longevity, banked sick time, etc. which is fine as long as qualified folks still desire the job. Evidence is beginning to show that the teaching profession is taking a big hit when it comes to new kids wanting to be teachers. She thinks otherwise and provides no evidence.

          Reply

          • El gaupo….my evidence to that is we will not be needing as many teachers, adjunct professors, etc because technology will take their place in the form of online courses, internet instruction, etc. As we all know every single college and university already has this type of “distance” learning where only a handful of professionals are needed to monitor and answer questions, etc from students

            Summer school classes are all online as are many world language, business and other elective type courses in public schools. Now a highly intelligent well experienced teacher is worth his or her weight in gold, I am not seeing that because of their stupid union where mediocrity and in competence are rewarded

            So yes the teaching profession is taking a hit simply because less teachers are needed and that is not counting cuts to dance, music, arts type programs……many people are using school choice, parochial schools or private schools……..still one of the easiest college degrees which is why so very many go into it but unfortunately for the dwindling full time positions available not as many teachers are needed or hired full time. Most districts have realized that they contract out or hire part timers where they don’t have to pay full salaries and benefits, maybe pensions but peanuts compared to full time………heck of a lot cheaper

            Cops?? IDK would still rather have the cops patrolling the streets then over staffed public schools…..so make sure you take care of us tax paying folks who can afford to pay you!

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 20, 2018 at 11:12 pm

            Quoting El gaupo ……………

            “But she has advocated for a hard freeze on DB plans and no new hires to get a pension. ”

            Indeed I have, because that is EXACTLY what we NEED to do and SHOULD do ASAP to STOP digging the financial hole NJ is NOWIn deeper every day …………. with MORE (VERY clearly unnecessary, excessive, unaffordable, and grossly unfair-to-Taxpayers who are now “responsible” for 80% to 90% of Total Plan costs) future service accruals.

            But a hard-freeze on FUTURE-service accruals is NOT ……… “taking pension away” ….. with any rational/NON-entitlement-mentality person associating that ONLY with respect to pension amounts already accrued for PAST service.

            NOBODY but PUBLIC Sector workers (like YOU) think that way ………. that they are ENTITLED (with OTHERS on the hook to pay for it ….REGARDLESS of the often UNKNOWN cost) to something for services NOT-yet-rendered.

          • El Guapo= Entitlement Mentality on Steroids

        • Posted by Anonymous on November 20, 2018 at 11:29 pm

          See MJ. I told you that’s what she wants. When someone is 10-15-20 years into a career you are indeed “taking a pension away” if you devalue that pension by 60-70% in some cases. You’re at least taking 2/3 of it. You can bitch all you want, show me one, just one, reputable article in the last year or so to back up your claim that there are hundreds of qualified folks lined up for public sector jobs. Just one!!! I’ll wait and reserve comment to you do.
          See MJ, she can’t help with all the entitled bullshit. So fuckin lame. Like lots of moron I pull over for speeding dont think they are entitled to break the law. Only public employees. So jealous. Your constant attack on me being entitled, moocher, light bulb changer etc, proves it. You really are NOT a happy person, and I gaurentee you would never insult me like that to my face. You would never have the balls to do so. This is your whole fuckin life!!! Go live it. Lol. Pathetic.
          MJ, I think we are quite far away from having minor kids(as if there are any other kind of kids, lol) staying home and completing their courses online. That is not a reality we will see in our lifetime. Who will watch them? I don’t want my kids to sit home all day unsupervised and not learning to socialize.
          MJ, I still seem to be her favorite target on here. It seems that I’m the only one with the balls to say what I do for a living and by extension, a ball park salary figure and even to share some anonymous aspects of my personal life to attempt to portray me as a human being and not just another number that TL wants to get rid of or reduce. She does not have children dependent on her salary alone. In fact, I’d guess she is single. Who’d want to be married to that…..I’ll take a hard pass thank you very much.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on November 20, 2018 at 11:39 pm

            Whole rant aimed at TL not MJ.

          • Posted by Anonymous on November 20, 2018 at 11:42 pm

            Whole rant aimed at TL not MJ

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 21, 2018 at 12:26 am

            Quoting El gaupo ……………

            “See MJ. I told you that’s what she wants. When someone is 10-15-20 years into a career you are indeed “taking a pension away” if you devalue that pension by 60-70% in some cases. ”

            Wow ……….. WHAT on God’s good earth makes PUBLIC Sector workers so damn “special” …… on the Taxpayers’ dime? NO such guarantees exist with respect to FUTURE service exist in ANY Private Sector plans that I am aware of (and I am familiar with a great MANY).

            No, YOU ……… with your HUGE “entitlement mentality” …….. are as YOU said, “so fuckin lame.” !
            ——————————————————————————-
            And I’m not attacking “you” per-se (nor are you my “target”), I’m attacking the MOOCHER within.

          • Your constant attack on me being entitled, moocher, light bulb changer etc, proves it. You really are NOT a happy person, and I guarantee you would never insult me like that to my face. You would never have the balls to do so. This is your whole fuckin life!!! Go live it. Lol. Pathetic.
            Internet Warrior/Tough Boy/GED WHiner LOL….A Gov trough feeder with a GED job. LOL I “gaurentee” it 🙂

          • To clarify, I was referring to high school aged kids and college aged and I think what I wanted to say is that the electives such as art, music, business, world language, etc are indeed classes that can be taken online…completed at home in the evenings, weekends, etc.

          • Posted by Anonymous on November 21, 2018 at 7:55 am

            College Absolutely. High school? Possible. Maybe not so much art and music where you would need lots of supplies, or would be playing with others in a concert type setting for practice. Foreign language and business classes, yes. No question.
            I must’ve pissed off TL. She started responding as Rex again. Haha. If you want to fool us TL, start by not always responding right after you do as TL. Then maybe change up the delivery more. Quotes to bold. Nah, we see right thru it. Why does it seem that I can relatively civil discourse with everyone on here but you? Even Stanley who agrees with you the most on here, doesn’t make the his passion in life. Haha. Shallow and sad.
            I despise ins fraud/politicians who abuse the system, etc. I know when to say when and enjoy life. It doesn’t define who I am. Nor does the fact that I will receive a Prfs pension. It’s just a benifit I get thru work. Some folks get huge expense accounts, stock options, etc. many get these and don’t even deserve them. Goods and services cost more because of this. That’s life. No one in power will listen to either of us. So this blog is just a venting space. And quite frankly, a total waste of BOTH of our time. You will never change your views and neither will I. Both of us could doing just about anything more productive than this dopey back and forth. And I blame myself as much as I do you(and Rex). Waiting for John to post an article and then picking on what the other person has to say. Kinda dumb to do it all the time. Not changing anything and kinda feels like we are on “point, counterpoint”.
            Peace out.

      • Posted by Stephen Douglas on November 20, 2018 at 4:30 pm

        I believe ideally, TL has advocated DC systems for all public workers, with a typical 3 percent match… Just like the private sector!

        “Reform”, meaning a 50 percent reduction (up to 75 percent reduction for police) is second choice.

        What we have here is a paradox. It’s true that math always wins in the end. That many DB plans are unsustainable. That pension contributions continue to increase. That unfunded liabilities also increase.

        It is also true that …
        “Hiring police officers is much harder than it used to be. To stay competitive, some are offering generous pay increases and bonuses.”

        “Law enforcement officials across the country say they’re struggling to fill vacancies, largely due to retirements and moves to the private sector.”

        “One driving factor is the stronger economy. Rapich says about half of his departing state police officers moved to the private sector or chose to pursue other opportunities outside of law enforcement, such as going back to school.”
        ———————————–
        MJ
        “…they need to be significantly reformed to remain sustainable.”

        They needed to be significantly reformed years ago. There is more money going out now to the unfunded liability than to current normal costs,* because…

        “DON’T PAY THE BILLS, THE DEBT GETS LARGER”

        *And not enough is being paid on the normal cost, either.

        But make no mistake… You get what you pay for. As I said above, While $150,000 salaries and $100,000 pensions are the lightning rods, they are not the norm.

        Even in California, I don’t know where junior got his “30 years of service = $104K at age 53”, but, even if it were true, CHP, like Bergen County, is the outlier. In 2004, their wages were keyed to the average of the five largest law enforcement agencies in the California. And they still have problems recruiting.

        “San Diego gave its officers pay increases of 25 to 30 percent last year, after staffing dropped well below authorized levels.”
        (Quotes are from the linked article at 8:10pm)

        CHP wages and pensions are not the norm. They are not average. They are not typical.

        Salaries and pensions in the Central Valley are much lower, if they are “significantly reformed* to remain sustainable.” Recruitment and retention of qualified workers will suffer.

        *i.e. “reduced”

        And, as with all occupations, public or private, for whatever reason, some companies/jurisdictions will have average pay, some will have below average pay (Camden?), and, no matter how you shake and dance, some will have higher than average pay (and pensions). Who gets to draw the line? (Hint… It ain’t TL.)

        Everybody can’t be average; it’s tautological.

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on November 20, 2018 at 11:38 pm

          Damn right TL doesn’t get to draw the line. And it absolutely KILLS her. Otherwise she wouldn’t resort to the name calling.
          I think there is definitely some mental illness there. Asperger’s maybe?? OCD?? She seems awfully obsessed with public sector pensions. And name calling when she is proven wrong….let’s see if she find one article backing up her claim that ours jobs attract thousands of applicants, or at least even find one that refutes your correct claim that that is not the case as it was 20 years ago.

          Reply

        • It is also true that …
          “Hiring police officers is much harder than it used to be. To stay competitive, some are offering generous pay increases and bonuses.”

          “Law enforcement officials across the country say they’re struggling to fill vacancies, largely due to retirements and moves to the private sector.”

          “One driving factor is the stronger economy. Rapich says about half of his departing state police officers moved to the private sector or chose to pursue other opportunities outside of law enforcement, such as going back to school.”
          LOL…Another GED Wonder!
          Cop= Unskilled/semi-skilled, blue collar, GED job 90% of America could do. All you need are a bag of tasty Doritos 🙂

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on November 21, 2018 at 12:58 pm

            Meatloafs ready loser….go see mommy. It must be nice having her pay all the bills. Me? I think of you TL when those pensions checks start clearing.

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 21, 2018 at 3:57 pm

            And WHEN (not IF) they eventually become reduced, or perhaps IOU’s ?

            Remember ………. the math ALWAYS govern in the end-game.

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on November 21, 2018 at 4:52 pm

            Math…

            “There’s a lot of peace of mind knowing that we’re on the right track to get more police in our area and get numbers up,” said Neubarth.”

            https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Raises-up-to-30-Percent-Offered-for-San-Diego-Police-Amid-Staffing-Crisis-451497603.html

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 21, 2018 at 7:46 pm

            “Staffing Levels” …. created BY Police, FOR Police.

            Resident should create a website to anonymously (to prevent retaliation) post snaphots of Police goofing off, wasting our time/money, etc.

          • It would seem that the dog might have got the number close (a” job 90% of America could do”), but backward. 90 percent don’t even want the job, and 90 percent of those that do, either wash out in the application process, or flunk out in the academy. Then another 15 percent attrition rate on top of that. (policeone.com, Dec 5, 2017)

            Not to worry… Our other financial genius has the cure for a nationwide recruitment/retention problem… Let’s cut their pay!!!

            Where is Earth when you need some common sense?

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 21, 2018 at 8:19 pm

            Quoting SD ………….

            “wash out in the application process, or flunk out in the academy. ”

            YES, but BECUASE the standards are made so tough ……. NOT because they NEED TO or SHOULD BE that tough ……. but for the PRIMARY purpose (BY FAR) of creating what “LOOKS LIKE” (but of course really ISN’T) a scarcity of qualified candidates ….simply to JUSTY the ludicrously excessive compensation.

            Nobody is being “fooled”.

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on November 21, 2018 at 9:52 pm

            Interesting, did you get that from the ICMA Center for Public Safety Management “Police Allocation and Deployment” white paper, or from the National Institute of Justice?

            You sound more and more like you’re channeling the Dog 🐕. Why bother spending five minutes searching for relevant articles and data, when you can just make them up?

  5. Posted by Earth on November 19, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    Earth to Douglas:

    You forgot to say “It is invalid to compare pensions outside the context of total compensation.”

    And

    “Everybody can’t be average.”

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on November 21, 2018 at 9:22 pm

      TL. With everyone having a cell phone, don’t you think websites already exist to catch cops and actually everyone for that matter(cashiers, people who need help-and being filmed instead of getting help, store clerks) many are you tube sensations. Most are not “goofing “ off but being human beings, and they make mistakes.
      But to think the standards are high because we want to create the illusion that people don’t want it is a huge stretch and you know it. You’re full of shit here. You always say GED hero etc(Of course you know the vast majority of us have college degrees) and say anyone can get hired. Which is it? Fake tough standards or low standards. Face it, you know nothing about law enforcement. Nothing at all. Except that your critical of it because you don’t like authority and you are a cheap muthafucker. You and Rex are still the same. Both losers in life. Earth cites fact after fact and you continue to think you are right even in the face of evidence that shows otherwise. You ma’am, could never do the job.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on November 21, 2018 at 9:30 pm

        I’ve actually never heard that one before TL. You really are tripping. I’ve met lots of anti cop types through the years. Many who just hate authority and many who hate to pay me. Never have i heard that standards are too high!!!! Usually your kind say “light bulb changer” etc. now you say the standards are too high????? Really???? They are so high but yet we are still GED warriors??? How does that work???
        You really should stay in your lane. Insurance work and yes, we know pension expert. Haha. That’s a joke. Maybe the Rex moniker is not your alter ego after all. Do you still live in your folks basement? What’s the deal w you Rex? Woof woof.

        Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on November 21, 2018 at 9:53 pm

        Quoting Anon …………..

        “But to think the standards are high because we want to create the illusion that people don’t want it is a huge stretch and you know it.”

        What “we want” is the appropriate BALANCE between “qualifications” and “cost” to buy it, and right now the qualification-bar is set to high (BY Police, FOR Police) ….. and assuredly HIGHER than what most residents really “need” (and certainly what they now THINK they are buying anyway) …….. because, as I stated above….

        “BECUASE the standards are made so tough ……. NOT because they NEED TO or SHOULD BE that tough ……. but for the PRIMARY purpose (BY FAR) of creating what “LOOKS LIKE” (but of course really ISN’T) a scarcity of qualified candidates …simply to JUSTIFY the ludicrously excessive compensation.”
        ———————————–

        Quoting Anon …………

        “You always say GED hero etc”

        I have NEVER used the term GED ………. that’s Rex. And no matter how many times that MOOCHER El gaupo calls me Rex, I’m not him. Ask Mr. Bury to check IP addresses if you don’t believe me.

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on November 22, 2018 at 2:16 pm

          Btw. Full disclosure. My phone is out for repairs and I have a loaner. It was El Gaupo last two posts.
          If it isn’t you then he is doing his best to copy your mannerisms.

          Reply

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