Bailout Committee Election Results

Now that we have a  Democratic House of Representatives the chances are excellent for some sort of bailout of multiemployer plans to be legislated in the next Congress. That is, unless those Democrats on the bailout committee fared poorly in yesterday’s election thus sending some sort of message. Here are the committee members with results for those who had races:

  • Senator Orrin Hatch Chairman (R-UT)
  • Senator Sherrod Brown Co-Chairman (D-OH)
  • Congresswoman Virginia Foxx (R-NC) WON 53.1%-46.9%
  • Congressman Richard Neal (D-MA) WON 100%
  • Senator Lamar Alexander(R-TN)
  • Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) WON 49.5%-46.3%
  • Congressman Phil Roe (R-TN) WON 77.1%-21%
  • Congressman Bobby Scott (D-VA) WON 100%
  • Senator Rob Portman (R-OH)
  • Senator Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND) LOST 44.6%-55.4%
  • Congressman Vern Buchanan (R-FL) WON 53.9%-46.1%
  • Congressman Donald Norcross (D-NJ) WON 63.4%-34.2%
  • Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID)
  • Senator Tina Smith (D-MN) WON 53%-42.4%
  • Congressman David Schweikert (R-AZ) WON 56.4%-43.6%
  • Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (D-MI) WON 68.2%-28.8%

The only loser:
.

38 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Analyst on November 7, 2018 at 7:19 pm

    Doesn’t committee have until end of this month to come up with a bill ?

    Reply

    • November 30 is when they are supposed to get out some report that staffers are working on now. The bill, with a Dem majority, will likely be one of the first put up with new Congress in January.

      Reply

      • But what are the chances it will get out of the Senate? Or signed into law by the president? Slim to zero.

        Reply

      • Posted by Stanley on November 8, 2018 at 9:20 am

        From the bill establishing the joint committee:

        (I) IN GENERAL.—The report of the joint committee and the proposed legislative language described in clause (i) shall only be approved upon receiving the votes of—

        (aa) a majority of joint committee members appointed by the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the Majority Leader of the Senate; and

        (bb) a majority of joint committee members appointed by the Minority Leader of the House of Representatives and the Minority Leader of the Senate.

        They need a majority of Republicans from both the House and Senate to report out a bill that requires legislative action as I see it. It’s difficult to imagine the participants agreeing to a major bailout of MEP pensions. I guess we will all know in about three weeks.

        I think the Joint Committee language only guarantees action from the present congress. I’m not sure about this but I don’t think that it carries over to the new congress.

        Reply

  2. On the money, right here:
    How Congress decides to address the multiemployer pension crisis may well set a precedent for how future legislators will deal with the possibility that they will face similar calls for bailouts of state and local pension systems. On their own accounts, using discount rates of around 7.1% under GASB 67, state and local pension systems were $1.7 trillion underfunded in the 2016 year. On the Treasury yield curve standard they were $4.0 trillion underfunded. The stronger their belief that the federal government will bail them out, the less discipline they will choose to impose upon themselves to address these problems.
    https://burypensions.wordpress.com/2018/08/03/rauh-testimony-3-roadmap-for-public-plans/

    Reply

    • Posted by PS Drone on November 8, 2018 at 11:24 am

      And who will “bail out” the Federal government after they bail out the underfunded state pension plans? $21 Trillion in booked debt and possibly $100 Trillion in net future Medicare/Medicaid and SS promises to be paid. No way Jose.

      Reply

  3. They’ll probably just cut Social Security and Medicare benefits for those born after 1957, most of whom don’t have pensions, to fund the larger pensions of those born earlier.

    Without saying so.

    What has happened in pensions is exactly like what has happened in executive pay.

    In the FIRST robber baron era, a cabal would gain control of a board of directors and just issue itself stock, in effect transferring money from the prior shareholders to themselves. That was made illegal. So they added 10 steps between and called them stock options. But it’s the same thing. The reason we have stock buybacks and not dividends is to offset the stock the C-suiters grant to each other.

    https://larrylittlefield.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/the-executive-financial-class-the-political-union-class-and-the-serfs-redux/

    So don’t invest in stocks, not at these inflated levels. But because other people’s pension funds are invested in stocks, you are on the hook for them anyway.

    Reply

    • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 9:02 am

      I don’t disagree with what you say at all, however, the stock market is over the long haul the best investment vehicle for your extra dough. Not gold like the folks at Fox News want u to think. “What’s in your safe?” Etc

      The real answer to that question is much scarier. Firearms and loads of ammo in most peoples safe. More “thoughts and prayers” and not much else for the folks in Cali. I’m afraid. Tell me again TL, which comparable job there is to police officer in the private sector? You know the one that says run in there where the guy is shooting a gun and take care of it. And if comparable, what is the compensation?

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on November 8, 2018 at 9:46 am

        In your 23 years, how many times have you fired you weapon at someone in the course of your Police duties ?

        Reply

        • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 10:55 am

          Never. Unholstered it once a began to point it at a guy who came at me with a two by four with nails sticking out of it. He dropped it right away when he saw I meant business. No question I would’ve shot him if he started to swing that thing at me.
          Not the point, I wonder how many times before that the cop was shot yesterday pulled his gun on someone in his 29 years. The question which you didn’t answer is what private sector job has an equivalent and if so, what are they compensated? You say we should be compensated as a private sector equivalent. What is that though? You are a hanger on from the christie days of public employee (I.e. cops) bashing. I haven’t heard in a few years that I make too much money, even the folks on here don’t begrudge me for the most part. Used to hear it all the time years ago.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 9, 2018 at 1:55 am

            El gaupo,

            That just shows how “risky” your job …. as a bedroom community LEO really is ………. i.e NOT risky AT ALL, and WAY less risky the MANY MANY other Private sector occupations..

            So no, you DON’T “deserve” the extra $ 1 Million in pension (total expected payout OVER what a comparable Private Sector workers might get (IF they were in a generous Private Sector DB Plan), AND the (perhaps) $500K in family retiree healthcare coverage for FREE (with comparable Private Sector workers now tyically getting NOTHING in employer-0spoonsored retired healthcare benefits).

            And HOPEFULLY, the Taxpayers will one day get to renege on those undeserved expected payouts.

          • And HOPEFULLY, the Taxpayers will one day get to renege on those undeserved expected payouts.

          • Not the point, I wonder how many times before that the cop was shot yesterday pulled his gun on someone in his 29 years. The question which you didn’t answer is what private sector job has an equivalent and if so, what are they compensated? You say we should be compensated as a private sector equivalent. What is that though?
            LEO is no different than the construction trades, which used to be paid MORE than LEO up until about 15-20 years ago. Oh, except that the construction trades are much, MUCH MORE dangerous than cop, or FF.

      • “The stock market is over the long haul the best investment vehicle for your extra dough.”

        It’s certainly better for people with pensions and the power to increase them, because it goes up and down. When you have a bubble, there is plenty of money, so benefits are retroactively increased and this is said to “cost nothing.” And the executive/financial class gets vastly more pay based on having created “shareholder value.”

        And when they correct back to normal, taxes are raised, public services are cut, and the pay and benefits of new public employees are slashed, “due to circumstances beyond our control” or “Wall Street stole our money.” The pensions are never reduced. And neither is executive pay, since the new higher level is the “going rate” based on the executive pay consultants the PTB are willing to hire to lie (like public pension actuaries).

        “Tell me again TL, which comparable job there is to police officer in the private sector? ”

        After Generation Greed finishes bankrupting the country, I suppose one will have to be created, since all the cops who are left will be protecting top executives, politicians, and of course themselves. I think in Italy, under foreign occupation over 150 years ago, they called it the mafia.

        Reply

        • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 11:16 am

          I don’t disagree with you on generation greed. I think the country is becoming so polarized that one day we will be more socialist. Reason being that the rich will continue to get richer and the hard working middle class will shrink so much that the poor/working poor will elect folks(happening already w some of these loony far left folks—as bad as the far right frankly—getting elected or close to be elected) that will balance things out again. At this point, the country is still a place where if you work hard you can still make a nice living for yourself. Will it be for our kids? Anybody’s guess.

          Reply

          • Posted by Stanley on November 8, 2018 at 11:21 am

            ” At this point, the country is still a place where if you work hard you can still make a nice living for yourself.”

            Yeah as long as you join the right union and it hasn’t previously exhausted the local community’s resources.

          • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 11:44 am

            Most of the folks in my town have a very decent standard of living and very few of them are public employees or union folks. (Where I work, not live).
            The next town over where I live is also a great town. A little less affluent, many cops live in it and is while higher than average $$ notably more blue collar than the one where I work. Think successful small businesses, solid union jobs etc. middle managers and such. So yes, while it may be slipping away most folks that work hard can still make a good living in US. If you guys spent half the time worrying about fraud, disability fraud, food stamp fraud etc etc etc and people gaming the system as you do about my finances you would see where the waste is. It ain’t the cops that’s for sure. But we are an easy target because 1) folks don’t like authority and being told what to do in general and 2) we are paid through property taxes not state or federal taxes as are the folks who game the system for their benifit. Sorry Stanley, in the “real world “ that you and the annoying one constantly refer to, cops are not going to work for peanuts because you want them to.

          • Posted by Stanley on November 8, 2018 at 12:55 pm

            Constable, there is a lot there. Don’t think that I have time to answer all of it. In a way you are right–I don’t like being told what to do and I try very hard to avoid situations where someone can tell me what to do. When I worked and was getting paid, of course I had to complete assigned work and obey rules and regulations that were established for all.

            As far as moochers go, their take from the system will likely be reduced at some point and if they are troubled, what good does it do to criticize their MO? We expect better from our boys in blue.

            If the trend toward bigger and more authoritative government continues, we will be headed toward Venezuela. Cops won’t have it very good although they may have it better than the general population.

            But if intellectual trends reverse and it becomes recognized that freedom and free markets serve all, then cops might find themselves working for market wages. It is possible to work for diminished money wages and improved conditions based on what the money wages buy.

            IMO, life is better where the threat of police intervention isn’t an important part of the social structure, where the most they police are likely to do is write a speeding ticket. (Apparently they quit enforcing stop signes.)

          • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 1:50 pm

            Again, as a former military man you should have no problem if a cop tells you to pull over etc. as long as they are following the rules.
            Don’t confuse a more liberal govt with a more authoritative one. Quite candidly, the old days of parents riding a kid who the cops brought home jnstead of coddling them were not a bad thing. I treat everyone with respect, however, I won’t give the white glove treatment to assholes that mouth off. You see it every day. I’m starting to think you were bullshitting us about your military service. These quotes don’t sound like a military mans quotes. Maybe you did too much acid in the sixties? You don’t really fit the “profile” of ex military. If I’m wrong I apologize in advance. Wouldn’t be the first time.

          • Posted by Stanley on November 8, 2018 at 2:59 pm

            That’s funny. I used to drink beer, but gave it up decades ago. I never smoked a joint much less tried the more advanced recreation drugs. I was pulled over in 2007 for speeding, we visited for a while and he wrote me a warning ticket. I have had one speeding ticket that I paid a fine for in 1997 or 8, don’t remember for sure. That’s all in over 30 years. Of course I pull over and show courtesy when I am pulled over. I tried to argue with a highway patrolman in 1987 and he asked if I would prefer a ticket for reckless driving–I preferred speeding.

            I served and collect a modest pension for my service plus access to hundred of bases world wide, plus MAC flights.

            There is little strife where I live and I don’t often hear emergency vehicle sirens. The HOA looks after the serious problems like people not putting out enough weed killer.

          • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 3:36 pm

            Lol. That’s a good life. I hope mine is that serene when I retire. That’s the plan. Retire to a less populated area. I like to have a few drinks now and then and plan on sparking up a joint or two AFTER I retire from the force. It will be legal by then I assume. I also enjoy gambling once I a while and probably curse too much. However, I am extremely loyal to my family and friends. The old lady lets me get away with murder cause she knows when it comes down to it I’m a family man and out my families interests ahead of my own almost all the time. I’m blessed in that regard and hope you are too. If more folks were like you in terms of breaking rules/the law, we would be in a better place here.

      • Posted by Stanley on November 8, 2018 at 11:01 am

        ” You know the one that says run in there where the guy is shooting a gun and take care of it.”

        More often than not they wait outside until the perp shoots himself. Then our boys in blue go in and work their magic on the crime scene analysis and do a bang up job on forms. I’m aware that there is a measure of unfairness in the above but too much truth to suit me.

        Reply

        • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 11:31 am

          Stanley,
          Patently incorrect and unfair. And it makes question whether you were in the military at all. As you know, there are hostage type situations…wait and have swat handle, or active shooter situations where it is go right in.
          Yes, many active shooter scenes end within first few minutes…how can you fault police for that….and I’m certainly not talking about the Florida deputy who froze. But the training, is to arrive on scene and proceed directly to the sound of gunfire. We have trained that way ever since Columbine.
          Usually, these crime scenes themselves are fairly cut and dry…not a who done it type of case and not sure what you mean with filling out forms? Except for learning what the officers did and trying to improve on that, what else could that do? This problem will be with us as long as we have nutjobs and 300mil guns in US. Not against guns—-but also not against people getting slaughtered. When that happens, law enforcement cleans up the mess. And then listens to Dopey comments like yours and TL. (Bedroom community, etc). Most of these type shootings happen in suburban schools, movie theaters, tourist spots, colleges, corporate headquarters, churches all in suburbia. When it happens, you will be sitting on your bunker with your AR, while the cops engage and clean up the mess. And TL will be at her keyboard lecturing us on problem with equal. 4x the pension. Etc. It’s all bullshit…..most cops are solidly middle class….right where they should be. The rich ones married into it or have successful side businesses. I don’t apologize for that and I don’t apologize for the PBA fighting for me to keep the standard of living that I have now…middle class. TL says…the big bad cops were at a council meeting staring at folks. Maybe cause they want their jobs to be safe? Not any different than a picket line outside a corporate headquarters.

          Reply

          • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 11:49 am

            Let’s hear a more moderate opinion….what say you MJ? I’d love to say my pension was the topic de jour, but it is more like the topic of the decade/lifetime to these losers.

          • Posted by PS Drone on November 8, 2018 at 4:58 pm

            El Gaupo, since the median US family income is somewhere around $58,000, I would say your self-admitted $150K+ comp puts you solidly in the UPPER middle class, and soon to join the 1% (after you glom onto your high paid “crash investigator” job and enjoy the fruits of your greedy union/corrupt politician six-figure “pension” at the ripe old age of 55!).

      • Tell me again TL, which comparable job there is to police officer in the private sector?
        The construction trades are identical to unskilled/semi-skilled LEO jobs. They are blue collar “trade and “occupations”. Except the construction trades are MUCH more DANGEROUS.

        Reply

        • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 1:41 pm

          Ok TL. Most of those trade guys make what cops make and still have very good pensions. And no one shoots at them either. I am friends with many of them. Try again loser.

          Reply

          • Those multi-employer construction pensions are also underfunded, due to retroactive pension increases during the 1990s stock market bubble.

            https://larrylittlefield.wordpress.com/2018/08/15/an-open-secret-mta-capital-costs-have-soared-to-pay-for-underfunded-metro-new-york-construction-union-pensions/

            Back on topic.

          • Posted by Stanley on November 8, 2018 at 3:32 pm

            ” Most of those trade guys make what cops make and still have very good pensions.”

            Are you serious? Have you been following the MEP pension debacle? And they don’t have steady work like you do. And sometimes they have to travel long distances to have any work at all. Try again, Constable!

            It’s like this Constable, you hold up the town and then expect respect and admiration for pulling a job.

          • Posted by El Gaupo on November 8, 2018 at 3:44 pm

            You say hold up, I say serve. Let’s meet in the middle. And in NYC and around here business is booming. Plenty of new construction here Stanley. Your off base with that….and candidly sound like a cranky old man. Lol. Although not in her highness’s class of course.

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 9, 2018 at 8:53 am

            Stanley,

            I too couldn’t believe that El gaupo said THAT ……………. ” Most of those trade guys make what cops make and still have very good pensions”.

            I though he was MUCH smarter and seemed reasonably well-informed, even if stuck in the “entitlement mindset”, but Clearly he’s CLUELESS.

          • Posted by El Gaupo on November 9, 2018 at 12:52 pm

            Uhhh…..TL, have you seen the rates that plumbers and electricians charge? My dad was union electrician in the city. He retired making $70000 in 1996. Most electricians and plumbers can live fairly well even in Bergen county. Not saying they make what a Chief makes, just saying they for the most part make six figures a year after a few years of work. No family man could raise his family in Bergen county if he didn’t.

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on November 9, 2018 at 1:41 pm

            I agree… almost… with TL and with El guapo. As I said once with the electrician I know/knew, it’s impolite to ask about income, but he supported his family very well (in the expensive Bay area) on one income. And the IBEW pension and healthcare are very good. Also seem to be well funded in this area.

            Butt…

            Whether you ever pull that gun or not, there is a huge difference in responsibility (and liability) once you put on that uniform and become a sworn officer. One simple mistake, whether it’s yours or another’s, can make or break your life, and your families life.

            https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/10/03/it-s-time-we-talk-about-police-suicide

            I actually don’t think my acquaintance made as much as a police officer in the same area, though. He might have been equivalent up to the late nineties, but a lot of safety workers got big salary increases following 9/11.

          • Mike W
            Apr 25 2013 at 10:58am

            …….So then how are they “screwed on pay” if their job security is an element of their compensation? I often hear this argument from upper-educated public employees (including those in education) that they not being paid what they are *worth* compared to similarly educated private sector workers. So why do they stay in the public sector?

            Tom West
            Apr 25 2013 at 12:28pm
            So why do they stay in the public sector?

            Following that line of reasoning, it’s tautologically impossible to *ever* be ‘screwed on pay’, in either the public or private sector.

            (econlib.org.)
            ————————————-
            “We’re definitely not seeing the same amount of people applying or the same amount of quality,” he said. “We used to attract the accountant and the business majors, but they’re not applying if their salary is permanently capped.”

            Patrick Colligan, president of New Jersey State Policemen’s Benevolent Association
            ————————————-
            Compensation and job satisfaction is very complex. No matter how you squirm and dance, If pay is not high enough, cops will leave. Either for the private sector or for higher paying police jobs.

            It’s tautological.

  4. Posted by MJ on November 9, 2018 at 7:03 am

    El Gaupo as I’ve stated before if you get everything you were promised, great, and if not then you will adjust as others have. I don’t see the sense in going round and round and round about what will happen to the pensions, I really don’t care. I’m glad to hear that things are booming in your neck of the woods and I guess the best case is that it will continue for years to come. I’m one of those people who is glad to see others prospering and doing well and as Stanley notes as long as all of these communities can afford to keep paying the status quo of salaries, benefits and pensions then so be it.

    One thing that I adamantly agree with you on is that the fraud should be investigated and corrected immediately….the double and triple dippers, the fake disabilities, the welfare scammers, the food stamp and HUD frauds, the tax cheats, the corrupt politicians, corrupts cops, etc etc…..but alas another booming piece of our economy

    I’m confident that we will be long gone before the checks stop coming 🙂
    Pease and love my brother

    Reply

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