Breaking News: Local 805 Gets Letter; SMW Sends Letter

In April, 2017 the Local 805 Pension Plan of New York, NY filed to cut benefits under MPRA. In September, 2017 they withdrew that application. This March they refiled and today they got their letter.

This April the Sheet Metal Workers Pension Fund of Massillon, OH filed. Lat week they sent a letter.

For Local 808: Approved

From their latest 5500 filing:

Plan Name: Local 805 Pension and Retirement Fund
EIN/PN: 13-1917612/001
Total participants @ 3/31/17: 2,029 including:
Retirees: 996
Separated but entitled to benefits: 574
Still working: 459

Asset Value (Market) @ 4/1/16: $51,672,207
Value of liabilities using RPA rate (3.23%) @ 4/1/16: $227,557,297 including:
Retirees: $142,792,445
Separated but entitled to benefits: $40,425,695
Still working: $44,339,157

Funded ratio: 22.71%
Unfunded Liabilities as of 4/1/16: $175,885,090

Asset Value (Market) as of 3/31/17: $47,185,714
Contributions: $1,807,322
Payouts: $11,901,461
Expenses: $836,186

For Sheet Metal Workers: Withdrawal

From their latest 5500:

Plan Name: Sheet Metal Workers Pension Fund
EIN/PN: 34-6666753/001
Total participants @ 4/30/17: 1,598 including:
Retirees: 560
Separated but entitled to benefits: 363
Still working: 675

Asset Value (Market) @ 5/1/16: $39,751,795
Value of liabilities using RPA rate (3.22%) @ 5/1/16: $155,490,509 including:
Retirees: $69,325,487
Separated but entitled to benefits: $28,914,493
Still working: $57,250,529

Funded ratio: 25.57%
Unfunded Liabilities as of 5/1/16: $115,738,714

Asset Value (Market) as of 4/30/17: $41,435,167
Contributions (MB): $3,896,375
Contributions (H): $3,930,394
Payouts:
$5,349,550
Expenses:
$567,438

 

40 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Anonymous on October 9, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    As far as OH goes, that’s ‘rust belt’ territory. The GOP will have to step up their game and bail them out.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anon on October 10, 2018 at 1:11 pm

      Yea. That and the coal industry

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on October 10, 2018 at 1:31 pm

        Yep. After this blowtorch of a summer, anyone who thinks climate change is a hoax ought to have their head examined. How folks deny science is to me beyond the pale.

        Reply

        • Posted by Stanley on October 11, 2018 at 9:39 am

          http://www.petitionproject.org/

          Many hacks are raking in big tax dollars from the hold it, drum roll please, the global warming scam. The weather comes and goes. Sometimes it’s too warm and at other times it’s too cold. Sometimes it’s just right. Fortunately, the means of dealing with the weather haven’t yet been outlawed; heating, air conditioning, warmer or cooler clothing and so on.

          Socialism was once the system that would provide a life of plenty and ease for all. That didn’t work out and it has since been repositioned as the system to fix the weather.

          Also see: wattsupwiththat.com cfact.org junkscience.com

          Reply

          • Posted by Anon on October 11, 2018 at 12:10 pm

            Quite literally every scientist disagrees with you. I think I’ll beleive them over you. When you have such a sudden (Over the last 30 years) change and have all these hot summers and milder winters in a row there is a cause and effect here. One day your grand children or their children will be absolutely astounded that we burned this much oil and that we had a president who was touting such a dirty fuel as coal. Otherwise I am conservative on most issues.
            Let’s face it, first it was a denial that it was getting warmer, then it was warmer but not man made, then maybe a little man made. Jesus, talk about denial.
            You sound like the type that when it snows or is cold(like trump this last year) says “ah see, no climate change here”. Like giving a homeless hungry child a sandwich and stating that we don’t have a hunger problem here. Unreall

          • Posted by Stanley on October 11, 2018 at 1:04 pm

            “Quite literally every scientist disagrees with you. I think I’ll beleive them over you.”

            No prob, believe as you see fit. It isn’t so that every scientist disagrees with me. Did you check the reference at petitionproject.org? 20K scientists including 4K with phd’s in physics signed on that anthropo caused climate change in unproven and doesn’t represent a problem. Have you heard of the Climate Research Unit scandal?

            Another source for reliable scientific info is the Heartland Institute. The usual sources are only propaganda outlets, CNN, MSNBC and so on. Global warming has been one huge cash cow.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 11, 2018 at 1:16 pm

            Soon after the petition was published, the National Academy of Sciences released this statement: “The NAS Council would like to make it clear that this petition has nothing to do with the National Academy of Sciences and that the manuscript was not published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences or in any other peer-reviewed journal. The petition does not reflect the conclusions of expert reports of the Academy.”

            Careful study of the list revealed the names of fictional characters from the “Star Wars” movies as well as the name of pop singer Geri Halliwell from the “Spice Girls” band. Critics of the petition had added bogus names to illustrate the lack of accountability the petition involved, including the difficulty—the practical impossibility—of verifying even the actual existence of each of the signatories, not to mention their expertise. To make the latter point, someone had added the title of “Dr.” to Halliwell’s name.

            Snopes
            ————————-
            No, 30,000 scientists have not said climate change is a hoax

            Politifact
            ————————–
            Several studies conducted independently (Oreskes 2004, Oreskes 2007, Doran and Zimmerman (2009), Anderegg et al. (2010), Cook et. al., 2013) have shown that 97% of climate scientists agree that humans are causing the climate to change, and that anthropogenic greenhouse gases are causing global changes to the climate. These views form the scientific consensus on climate change.

            Skeptical Science
            —————————–
            “Er, there is a cooling, there’s a heating. Look it used to not be climate change, it used to be global warming, right?”

            Donald J Trump
            ——————————
            Er…

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 11, 2018 at 2:32 pm

            Welcome back Stanley, still doing those fossil fuel steam baths! And this from someone who believes in living healthy, exercising, eating fruits & nuts (a la your previous post referencing WV). Especially the nuts! Hope you cashed your Fed taxpayer funded Military pension & SS checks this month. And let’s not forget the Medicare coverage supplemented by your TRICARE. As you’ve stated, ime to cut those other DBP and other over promised benefits. But not you and yours!!

          • Posted by Stanley on October 11, 2018 at 3:08 pm

            “Soon after the petition was published, the National Academy of Sciences released this statement:…”

            Just say that 97% agree with a position. So what? All can be correct on an idea or all can be incorrect and any mixture in between. You can consider your post a work of scholarship if you want to, I don’t care.

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 11, 2018 at 8:26 pm

            It’s called “climate change” not “weather change”……….. huge difference.

            You surprised me with your position on this issue ……… and STRONGLY disagree with you.

          • Quite literally every scientist disagrees with you.
            So you personally know the scientific opinion of “every scientist” on climate change. That is remarkable!

        • Posted by Stanley on October 11, 2018 at 3:12 pm

          “As you’ve stated, ime to cut those other DBP and other over promised benefits. But not you and yours!!”

          I have not stated that. And I have not used Medicare and I let Tricare for Life coverage go. And I don’t apologize when I cash my pension and social security checks. Have a nice day.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 11, 2018 at 4:40 pm

            No apologises necessary, your sentiment is echoed ..
            No Medicare or Tricare?

          • Posted by Anon on October 11, 2018 at 6:27 pm

            I disagree wholeheartedly with your opinion on climate change, this is America and we can agree to disagree. The facts are on my side. I will take science anyday over the alternative. When leaders fail to do what’s right is where we run into problems. I honestly don’t see how you really think that burning of fossil fuels is the way of the future.
            I also commend you on your military service and advise you to ignore the troll going on and on about a military pension. Far too few people really sacrifice for the better good. You have and I personally thank you for your service.

          • Posted by El gaupo on October 11, 2018 at 6:32 pm

            I also don’t apologize for my salary and benifits. Not by any metric. And I won’t when I collect my pension in a few years(1.5-6.5)
            And Stanley, I also thank and commend you for your service. Far too many people, my self included, shamefully, have not served their country. I hold in the highest regard those who do.
            Btw, I also concur w Anon on climate change.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 11, 2018 at 7:26 pm

            My point is never to diminsh anyone’s sacrifice or life’s decisions, especially military. Rather to highlight the fact that all of us have made employment, financial, and personal decisions for various reasons. But the fact that an individual (just so happens to be retired military) speaks so devisevly against others DBP is IMO very hypocritical.

            There’s pros and cons to everything we do in life. Being in the military is not all bad and only a small percentage every see combat. They get to travel the country and world. Have opportunities for free or low cost education. And free or low cost healthcare, be it Tricare or VA. In Stanley’s case he’s indicated allowing such benefits to lapse.

            Let’s remember life’s double standards on what we think we’re entitled to versus what other were promised!

          • Posted by PS Drone on October 11, 2018 at 7:51 pm

            At least Stanley is realistic enough to appreciate that someday he may face reductions in his military pension and/or SS. Seems public sector drones never are able to contemplate or understand the economic reality that they face due to the overriding greed and corruption that lead to the ridiculous benefits that they think they deserve at taxpayer expense.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 11, 2018 at 8:11 pm

            The Indians had it right; ‘white man speak with forked tounge and their contracts are worthless’.

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 11, 2018 at 8:32 pm

            Quoting PS Drone ……………

            Seems public sector drones never are able to contemplate or understand the economic reality that they face due to the overriding greed and corruption that lead to the ridiculous benefits that they think they deserve at taxpayer expense.

            From his above comment (and many prior comments), he assuredly belong in that category. Change IS coming, and rightfully it SHOULD include those ALREADY RETIRED.

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 11, 2018 at 8:33 pm

            Ooophs ………… the word “he” in my last paragraph above should have been EL gaupo.

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on October 11, 2018 at 9:53 pm

            “he”, and many other public sector workers, should realize and understand the economic reality that their pensions may be reduced, through no fault of their own. This is much more likely in some states than in others. You know who you are.

            And rightfully, especially in the most egregious cases, these changes must “rightfully” include many of those already retired. It’s not karma. It’s not retribution. It’s math.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 12, 2018 at 8:35 am

            PS dribble Stanley is realistic about his promised benefits earned not being reduced. No wait, here comes the senior citizens rally demanding their benefits be cut for the good of future generations’. Drone on……

  2. Posted by Anonymous on October 10, 2018 at 2:20 pm

    Well the Rebs claim to have future generations’ financial best interest! Questions is where will they live and what will they eat/drink? Then again, ‘they’ don’t have to worry because ‘they’ll’ be dead. Drink and light up frequently!

    Reply

    • Posted by Anon on October 10, 2018 at 2:58 pm

      Drill baby drill. We’d rather have a series of catastrophes every year as we cook ourselves to death than hit those stupid Obama fuel efficiency standards and wean ourselves onto electric cars. Electric cars = commie crap.
      Stupid spineless leaders who either are really dumb or keep quiet for $$$. Either way it’s a disgrace.

      Reply

  3. Posted by Tough Love on October 11, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    Off Topic ……………..

    LOL…..LOL …..LOL ….. LOL …..

    A journalist’s commentary on today’s White House-Trump luncheon with Kanye West and Jim Brown:

    “Rather than invite real policy experts, say on education or criminal justice, Trump brought before the cameras two famous black men who like him.

    The result was about what one would expect — a hard-to-parse, bizarre Oval Office moment with very little substance fueled by West’s desperate need for attention and Trump’s need for open adoration by famous people. “

    Reply

  4. Posted by Stephen Douglas on October 11, 2018 at 10:20 pm

    Stanley…
    “Just say that 97% agree with a position. So what?”

    To be honest, “97% agree” is as misleading as “30,000 scientists say global warming is a hoax”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexepstein/2015/01/06/97-of-climate-scientists-agree-is-100-wrong/#6fc14fdf3f9f

    The truth is somewhere in the middle. Most climate scientists agree that human activity is increasing global warming, but don’t necessarily agree on the extent of that increase, and don’t agree on how drastic and costly the “cure” should be.

    The question is, thirty years from now, will our grandkids ask why we didn’t listen to the experts?

    Same reason we didn’t listen to Jeremy Gold?

    Reply

    • Posted by Stanley on October 12, 2018 at 8:57 am

      “The question is, thirty years from now, will our grandkids ask why we didn’t listen to the experts?”

      At least you are polite about it. First, most of the warming that has occurred coming out of the little ice age in the 19th century came prior to WWII–prior to most of the increase in man made CO2. An effect does not precede the cause. There has been little warming in the past 20 years when CO2 emissions have really increased. A lot of the warming that we see is due to urban heat effect. Maybe human activity has some effect on temperature. It is naive to think that little ol us in this gargantuan universe are significantly impacting anything but our own immediate surroundings.

      A moderate temperature increase is not a bad thing. If anyone thinks that it is, they should hire a moving van and relocate a bit to the north–the tycoons have places located so that they can always enjoy optimum weather. Most of us can’t do that. A warmer temperature and higher CO2 levels improve growing conditions which improves plant life and fodder for animal life. That is a bad thing for anti humanist enviro types, but good for the rest of us.

      I don’t agree that discerning scientific fact is arrived at by polling and averaging. The essence of this question comes down to: are you a humanist or anti humanist.

      I don’t believe that the well-being of people living today or those living 30 or 50 years from now will be largely determined by average ambient temperatures that are degree or two warmer or cooler than at present, even if we could cause a change. But I do believe that economic productivity will hugely impact both those living today and those living tomorrow. Abundant, low cost energy is fundamental to our well being and economy.

      If the enviros were really concerned about the environment, they would not have trashed the nuclear power industry.

      Reply

      • Posted by El gaupo on October 12, 2018 at 12:45 pm

        You’re in the definite minority on this issue Stanley. Unfortunately, some of that minority is in office. Just about every civilized country on Earth(Stephen Douglas?) is attacking this problem. The minority is wrong and our grandkids will be paying the price. If you think that it will be all rosy with a hotter planet, I encourage you to come by a house along the coast. Perhaps it is because you live in the Midwest? Let’s be honest, just like in olden days the smart folks live within a few hours of an ocean. Eating seafood is good for the brain. That’s why we recognize the issue at hand. That’s why TL and I find common ground on this. We both know that Trump really is NOT good for this country. She’s a Jersey girl, Stanley. They just make us smarter out here along the Atlantic coast.
        Cops too, that’s why we make more than cops anywhere else. 🙂
        With pension benifits to boot…life is beautiful. A nice crisp autumn day….uh, gee TL it’s only 50 out today, Stanley must be right on climate change.

        Reply

        • Posted by Stanley on October 12, 2018 at 2:23 pm

          LOL. I don’t live in the Midwest. I live north west of LA during the summer and east of LA during the winter. I wasn’t going to put this into a post, but I have been wondering how the smart folks are up to their eyeballs in financial problems. IL is leading the way, but NJ and CT are right behind. After the financial bubble blows, Ca will have really serious funding issues to deal with.

          Those poor dumb btards in the midwest are not up to their eyeballs in over promised late life benefits. How do you explain that?

          Trump is very good for the country. The first order for the Court is reversing Chevron vs NRDC. I don’t see them getting involved with pensions. IMO it’s too complicated to put into a court decision and I don’t see them adjudicating thousands of pension cases. They could extend bankruptcy protection to states and the cities that are presently restrained from filing. You won’t be crowing as loudly when the SHTF.

          https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/10/11/bombshell-audit-of-global-warming-data-finds-it-riddled-with-errors/

          Reply

          • Posted by El gaupo on October 12, 2018 at 4:14 pm

            My bad. I could’ve sworn you mentioned once you lived in MN or somewhere near there. Again, we will agree to disagree on climate change. I would love it if you were right. I also fear that if your wrong my pension benifits may be the least of our problems.
            In the meantime, as I said I am pretty smart. Max on 457 and roth every year and will have my mortgage paid off in 9 years (I’m 47) and will own my home outright. 2 Kids in high school. When I retire, they will be out of or almost out of college. So if the doomsday scenario of my $100,000 pension being cut ever happens I’ll be prepared. Never carry a credit card balance and drive cars until the wheels fall off. Also take nice vacations and enjoy myself WITHIN my means!!!! That is the key as you know.
            Anyway, again thank you for your service to our great country.

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 12, 2018 at 4:14 pm

            Quoting ……………

            “Trump is very good for the country. ”

            I almost CHOKED when I read THAT.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 12, 2018 at 4:24 pm

            And with his financial transparency his bs statement is worth, well, probably billions.

            https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trumps-list-289-accomplishments-in-just-20-months-relentless-promise-keeping

          • Posted by Stanley on October 12, 2018 at 9:11 pm

            “…will have my mortgage paid off in 9 years (I’m 47) and will own my home outright.”

            The mortgage may be paid but you will not own the house outright. You do and will still have a giant sized co-owner: the state pension funds. A big problem with resolving the pension funding dilemma is that pretty much a region has to be almost wiped out, completely insolvent, to get any relief in bankruptcy court. You know, like Detroit. Your position is better than some because what they take from your house, they hand over in lucrative pay and pension payments. Another problem with NJ is that neighboring states are in almost as bad shape as NJ.

            Mucho inflation is on the way Senor El Gaupo Uno, the least worst way out.

          • Posted by El gaupo on October 12, 2018 at 11:01 pm

            Last time I checked, Bergen county N.J. was /is light years away from Detroit. No comparison there, but you know that. In fact, it is the red states that need and take the most from the federal govt. places like Kansas Arkansas Mississippi Alabama Louisiana etc etc all Trump states.
            High(er) inflation then the Obama years for sure. The result in part due to record low unemployment, for which I give Trump most of the credit(I am a moderate, something the country desperately needs more of).
            As you know, with a Labor shortage(see teachers in multiple red states) comes higher wages. With higher wages comes more spending and higher prices for goods and services.
            You’re doomsday scenario picture will probably never come to pass. Just like you think the effects of climate change (not weather variations) will never come to pass.
            Just because I plan for a rainy day, doesn’t mean I need to every minute of my life subscribe to the philosophy of “in time of peace, prepare for war”. I’d rather just enjoy what time I have on the planet. My pension will help me do just that.

          • Posted by Stanley on October 13, 2018 at 9:49 am

            “…it is the red states that need and take the most from the federal govt. places like Kansas Arkansas Mississippi Alabama Louisiana etc…”

            That’s a big myth something the modern age is great at producing. Military spending does NOT IMO represent welfare programs for red states. If you take out the military spending you probably have numbers similar to blue states. CA has 1/3 of the food stamp contingent so I would be surprised if the blue states aren’t nailing down the lion’s share of the welfare spending. Which states have the most single parent households? Bet it isn’t the red states.

            I am not hoping that my dour outlook is realized and I won’t be disappointed if it isn’t. There is much puff in financial markets and it wouldn’t take much to produce a real down home donnybrook. That you are optimistic is a pretty good sign that troubles are on the way. Have a nice day leaning on that shovel and planning the next raid on bills of goods.

          • “…it is the red states that need and take the most from the federal govt. places like Kansas Arkansas Mississippi Alabama Louisiana etc…”

            Hard to say who you can trust anymore. Statistics can be very misleading, and not always unintentionally.

            Tax Foundation is a conservative voice, and usually reliable. This chart is not federal spending per state, but strictly federal aid, as a percentage of general revenue.

            Tax Foundation says “these states, and others that rely heavily on federal assistance, tend to have modest tax collections and a relatively large low-income population.”

            https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/

  5. Posted by geo8rge on October 14, 2018 at 9:44 am

    Will Sears retirees see their pensions?
    https://www.chicagobusiness.com/retail/will-sears-retirees-see-their-pensions

    “Amid its struggles, the company cut the number of pensioners by three-quarters, from 400,000, by offering lump-sum buyouts and annuitizations.” I assume annuitization means they purchased an annuity from an insurance company. I don’t know what protections Canada offers annuitants.

    The same process could probably be used on the multi employer program. I did some google searches to see how the Socialists up north were handling the Sears Canada bankruptcy, “The Sears Canada Pensions Windup” in Canadian. I think the term windup might be considered too heartless in the US. Perhaps because Canadian Healthcare is guaranteed it seems Canada is not expected to bail out the pensions at all and it doesn’t seem to be a big issue there. There does not seem to be an equivalent to the PBGC in Canada. Canadian Healthcare seems to be socialist while Canadian financial regulation seems to be more laissez faire than the US. I personally suspect the biggest problem the US multi employer retirees have is healthcare costs.

    I believe in Canada there is some surprise that pensioners are not given higher priority than bondholders. If I get that right.

    Reply

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