Selling Multiemployer Bailout

According to Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), citing the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), it will only cost $34 billion over the next 10 years for a bailout of multiemployer plans. Back on July 16 the CBO put the estimate for the Butch Lewis Act of 2017 (S.2147), which would provide government-backed loans to financially struggling plans while avoiding cuts to retiree benefits, at $100 billion over 10 years with this proviso:

The results of a formal cost estimate could differ substantially in either direction based on further clarification.

$34 billion might not even cover Central States but there is one other point that the CBO might not be considering.

If the government is going to hand out free money then what is to stop every multiemployer plan from wanting some? There are supposedly 115 critical and declining plans but if federal money is on the table and actuarial assumptions for classifying status remain ‘flexible’ there could be a lot more.

34 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by PS Drone on September 13, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    “What is to stop every multiemployer plan from wanting some?” How about most underfunded state plans? They make these private sector deadbeat plans look like peanuts by comparison. But why not? The Federal government has money to burn…..oh, wait….

    Reply

    • How about most underfunded state plans? They make these private sector deadbeat plans look like peanuts by comparison.
      So TRUE! Butt he fact is the Multi-Employer plans chances of getting a $100++ BILLION “bailout” are slim and zero IMO. And Slim may be out of town. And there is NO WAY in in possible scenario that deep blue states like CA and NY will ever get ANY public pension system bailout $$. ZERO CHANCE. It will never happen. Nor should it. I AM conflicted because I think the PRIVATE SECTOR employees in SOME of these Multi-Employer plans were shafted, by “money mangers” and also by federal oversight in a few cases. These Multi-Employer plans are for the most part modest pensions going to people in their 60’s. NOT $100K++ public pensions flowing to 45-50 y/o cops and firewhiners, many on bogus “disability” claims. I also want to barf when I see these Multi-Employer plans in relationship to the TARP Bailout, of which a whopping 94% of Americans were AGAINST. TARP was the most disgusting, unethical, immoral bailout in this countries history. BAILING OUT AIG at 100 cents on the dollar (instead of 20 or 25 cents) so Goldman Sachs and their billionaire Partners and Associates could stay in business. And make no bones about it, without the TARP/AIG “Bailout” Goldman Sachs would have gone BK faster than Lehman Brothers did. Should we Bailout the Multi-Employer plans? NO. Should we have passed TARP and bailed out Goldman Sachs and their billionaire/millionaire partners and associates? Hell no. But the bottom line is the poor and middle class in this country are getting reamed by the top 1/100th of the 1%er’s. We have basically turned into a Banana Republic. I do think the country should do SOMETHING for these Multi-Employer plan pensioners. What should we do?? I don’t have the answer. But if BILLIONAIRES can get bailed out by the feds (AKA you and me) then we can do something for these pensioners who have modest pensions at age 65 or older…

      Reply

      • Posted by skip3house on September 14, 2018 at 4:55 pm

        ” Hell no. But the bottom line is the poor and middle class in this country are getting reamed by the top 1/100th of the 1%er’s. We have basically turned into a Banana Republic ” Perfect.

        Reply

  2. Posted by skip3house on September 13, 2018 at 8:46 pm

    Think it is possible they know they will be dead before their ^$#& hits the fan?

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on September 14, 2018 at 12:10 am

      Well they (meaning Public Sector workers/retirees) are certainly trying to stall reforms until they get all that has been “promised” ……….. and of course with ZERO concern for those who follow them (be it taxpayers, future Public Sector workers, or their own children).

      Greedy bastards.

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on September 14, 2018 at 9:45 am

      The incredible greed of Public Sector workers, coupled with the incredible self-interest/stupidity/incompetence/taxpayer-be-damned attitude of our Elected Officials, and uninvolved Private Sector citizenry.

      Reply

    • Robert Bixby Police Chief $539,278.78
      David White Fire Chief $502,129.73
      Ronald Iizuka Assistant Chief $473,607.36
      Michael Bowden Assistant Fire Chief $438,808.67
      Michael Nagy Fire Marshal $418,058.13
      Osama Agaiby Police Captain $409,967.44
      John Nachbar City Manager $409,540.74
      Kenneth Powell Battalion Chief $406,092.63
      Michael Shank Police Lieutenant $398,988.69
      Carol Warshaw City Attorney $384,615.98

      NOT a SINGLE one of these jobs REQUIRES a college degree much less an advanced degree. These are ALL 1%er’s. 1%er’s working in unskilled/semi-skilled government jobs. With ZERO chance of being fired for incompetence.

      Reply

      • OK, the City Attorney (Carol Warshaw, AKA Carol Schwab) requires an advanced degree, the ONLY job listed that REQUIRES ANY college degree. And she is the LAST ONE listed on the Top 10.

        Reply

      • Try to curb your jealousy, Junior. It’s not helpful, or healthful.

        Yes there are public employees in the top one percent, barely. There are thousands of private sector employees way ahead of them, many with no college degree. Mostly in sales or management; they got there the same way the Police Chief did, by starting at the bottom and promoting up through progressive levels of experience and responsibility.

        If the infamous Transparent California were to collate all private sector job wages (and benefits) into their list, the first public sector position would be at least a hundred pages down.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on September 14, 2018 at 7:09 pm

          Another load of garbage form Stephen Douglas.

          There is ZERO justification for the ludicrously excessive pensions and benefits now granted ALL Public Sector workers.

          ALL should be immediately shifted to DC Plans with a Taxpayers %-of-pay “match” comparable to what Private Sector workers typically get from their employers …. 3% of pay.

          Then, pay them wages that are comparable to what they would get in the private Sector while still being affordable to Taxpayers………. and if they are not “satisfied”, let them quit and move on, just as Private Sector do when not satisfied.

          Reply

    • See my (short) answer below.

      Reply

  3. If they get more money, does that mean they can increase benefits again?

    The Generation Greed solution. Raise taxes on younger generations of workers. Cut public services required by younger generations of workers, such as infrastructure and education for their children. Run up the debt, and then eliminate old age benefits for younger generations of workers “due to circumstances beyond our control.”

    What about those benefit increases in the late 1990s. Why aren’t they being discussed? Because they benefitted — Generation Greed.

    https://larrylittlefield.wordpress.com/2018/08/15/an-open-secret-mta-capital-costs-have-soared-to-pay-for-underfunded-metro-new-york-construction-union-pensions/

    Can you image anyone proposing cuts in pension benefits for existing retirees AND increases in wages and benefits for workers under 50 to more than today’s retirees are getting now? What would be said about that? There would be outrage!

    And yet the same thing happens over and over and over and over and over, without the fairness of this ever being discussed.

    Reply

    • Posted by PS Drone on September 14, 2018 at 12:07 pm

      Greed will always trump “fairness”. And with the public sector unions and their allied corrupt politicians, there will be no such thing as fairness. That is until ALL of the money runs out.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on September 14, 2018 at 12:37 pm

        Yup especially those Fed Military pensions! Without question the defense industry is one of the largest and strongest lobbying groups in Washington. Right up there with Health Insurance & Drug Companies. Oh fairness has its privileges! No diversion from the topic just more facts on public pensions.

        Reply

        • Posted by Stanley on September 14, 2018 at 3:14 pm

          “Yup especially those Fed Military pensions!”

          According to the Heritage Foundation, about 12% of those entering the military services stay long enough to qualify for a pension. I don’t know what percentage of men enter the services. In my age group it was nearly 100% and today it might only be 20%, but still almost everyone is invited to join and of those who do join most are invited to stay longer term.

          If it is such a gravy train of benefits for little in return, why don’t more stay for a pension? Just a few years ago, I met young men with 12-14 years of active army service seriously contemplating leaving the army. After five and six tours in Iraq/Afghanistan, they got pretty tired of being deployed. And service in the guard/reserves was almost as bad as active duty for many.

          Let me hear those who left the service early tell how it was money for nothing.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on September 14, 2018 at 3:46 pm

            Hmm sounds like a little military related self Interest. And from someone who’s previously referenced bogus studies (ie WV, etc.). Ok now the denials!

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on September 14, 2018 at 11:16 pm

            The grass is always greener.

            “One in five people” is ironic, because that’s about how many public employees are “full career” retirees. Most don’t even stay long enough to vest in a pension. But everyone seems to believe that “the other guy” has it so much better. Many military join for job training and experience, then take their training to the private sector for better pay. (And/or to qualify for college under the GI Bill.)

            Public workers also use their work experience to move to better paying private sector jobs. A bird in the hand is better than a possible pension in the future.

            And, as always, even with their allegedly outlandish pensions, there are still thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of public workers who earn less in total compensation than their private sector peers.

            If you think the other guy has it so much better than you, by all means, by all means, go for it.

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 15, 2018 at 7:27 am

            Quoting Stephen Douglas/Earth …………….

            “And, as always, even with their allegedly outlandish pensions, there are still thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of public workers who earn less in total compensation than their private sector peers.”

            But (per the AEI Study) when you include ALL (non-safety *) Public Sector in the comparison with their Private Sector counterparts (which is the proper comparison that financially impacts the Taxpayers), there is almost always a VERY material Public Sector “Total Compensation” (wages + pensions + benefits) advantage …………. 23%-of pay in BOTH our home States of CA and NJ (per that AEI Study). How come you always leave that out ….. biased, not forthright, a charlatan, perhaps even a paid Union “mouthpiece”?

            Taxpayers …………….. how much more would YOU have accumulated for YOUR retirement needs if YOU had an additional 23%-of-pay to save and invest in EVERY year of YOUR career ……….. $500,000, $1 Million, perhaps $2 Million for some ?

            ———————————————–

            The AEI Study excluded Public Sector Safety workers (police, fire, etc.). With much greater than average wages and the richest pensions & benefits, that 23%-of-pay Public Sector Total Compensation advantage would have been considerably HIGHER had Safety workers been included in that Study.

  4. Posted by Tough Love on September 14, 2018 at 2:19 pm

    It’s the DB pension Plan that is heavily contributing to Sears demise…… even thought they froze the Plan 12 years ago.

    DB pension are no more affordable in the Public Sector. And in fact much MORE costly because they are MUCH MUCH richer than those typically granted to Private Sector workers.

    AND ………. they too need to be FROZEN. and not not just for new workers, but for the future service of all Public Sector CURRENT workers.

    https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/14/news/companies/sears-pension-retirees/index.html

    Reply

  5. Posted by Anonymous on September 14, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    https://qz.com/929153/only-one-in-five-people-take-up-this-incredibly-generous-pension-to-retire-at-40/

    Zero justification for taxpayers to support any public DBP greater than those routinely granted to those in the private sector.

    One begins to wonder how many anti public DBP bloggers here and elsewhere are talking out of both sides of their…..

    Reply

  6. Posted by Anonymous on September 14, 2018 at 7:18 pm

  7. Posted by Anonymous on September 15, 2018 at 8:44 am

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/406771-texas-board-votes-to-eliminate-hillary-clinton-helen-keller

    How long before blue states do the same with this disrespectful and disgracful POTUS!

    Reply

  8. Posted by Anonymous on September 15, 2018 at 10:23 am

    Gut check! Let States, pro rational, assume ALL Federal DBP (excluding SS) unfunded liabilities and the Feds assume ALL Stated DBP unfunded liabilities. And the numbers, adjusted for covered active and retired members, are?

    Reply

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