Sweeney Panel’s NJ Tax Plan

The panel of insiders that New Jersey Senate President Stephen Sweeney assembled came out with their report on ways to “make the state more affordable”. All you need to know is in the fifth line of the  U.S.News story:

The report doesn’t specify how much the changes could save or potentially cost taxpayers.

I can answer that.

Nothing (as far as savings) and higher tolls.

This is more a diversion than a plan. Until the systemic legalized corruption is spotlighted so that we all realize what we are dealing with nothing that will reduce taxes in any noticeable way has a chance of being enacted.

 

73 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Tough Love on August 9, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    “F” the ludicrously excessive pensions (and benefits) …………….

    Taxpayers should renege on the 50% to 75% that assuredly would NOT have been granted in the absence of the Union/Elected-Official COLLUSION, with the former BUYING the favorable votes of the latter (on Public Sector pay, pensions, and benefits) with BRIBES disguised as campaign contributions.

    The TPK (at least conceptually) belongs to ALL of NJ’s residents, NOT just those riding the Public Sector gravy train.

    Let the Plans FAIL ……….. and then let the greedy moochers see if they can get their ludicrously excessive pensions/benefits to continue paying out of annul budget revenue. As they say …………. good luck with THAT !

    Reply

    • Posted by Javagold on August 10, 2018 at 12:41 am

      Fuck that. Renege 100% or not at all !!!!

      Reply

      • Posted by El gaupo on August 10, 2018 at 7:59 am

        Yeah!!!! Fuck that!!!!!!

        Reply

        • Posted by PS Drone on August 10, 2018 at 1:02 pm

          Another LEO we can all be proud of. Glad to pay a six-figure pension to this guy. Looks like he deserves that and more!

          https://www.nj.com/warren/index.ssf/2018/08/chest-flexing_sheriffs_officer_loses_his_porsche_a.html

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 10, 2018 at 1:18 pm

            Just loved this part ……………………..

            “As police prepared to write Tozzi a ticket for disorderly conduct, they ran the plate on the Porsche and found that it was also unregistered. Tozzi could not provide proof of insurance for the car, either.”

            THIS is what NJ hires for LEO’s ?

          • Posted by El gaupo on August 10, 2018 at 2:18 pm

            Get ready for more of that. For a high school kid who sees these morons(yes I mean the cops who screw up) coupled with the blatant disrespect that wasn’t there a generation ago from the general public (and you two)and factor in the salary caps, they are rightfully deciding that it is better to do something else.
            And the reason I say you two is because I never once have seen a positive or empathetic response concerning law enforcement. Two Camden cops were ambushed and shot while sitting at a red light. Not a peep about that. You wanna criticize that sheriff guy, I’m right there w ya. But those are still isolated incidents. Talk to any veteran cop and you’ll find someone who is running out the clock. Do you have kids? I do. I don’t want them to follow in my footsteps. If you have kids in high school, ask them how many of their friends want to be cops.
            I agree that guy should be suspended or fired. Problem is you only point out the bad ones. Never the good stories that aren’t as sensational as this one. If that was a regular guy who worked in the “real” world and he did that it would not make the news and if it did it would be forgotten.
            All I hear from you guys is how fucking greedy I am….which is why I am not on this site as much anymore. I don’t apologize for what I make and never will. And I don’t expect you too. You guys don’t even share what the hell you do for a living so who are you to criticize. I’ll gladly take the free medical the town wanted me to take and I’ll gladly cash every damn pension check with a smile on my face. Why? Because I will be done with police work. It sucks guys.

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 10, 2018 at 3:12 pm

            El gaupo, so far (other than getting pissed in the extreme in a few comments) you have given me no reason to “disrespect you”.

            My advocacy for VERY materially reducing your pension & benefits has nothing to do with disrespect, but simply that they are ludicrously excessive by any and every reasonable metric, were never necessary, just, fair taxpayers or affordable.
            ——————————————-

            P.S. There are tons of issues upon which I do not “positively comment”. Not doing so (including positive comments about Police) does NOT constitute a lack of respect (where earned).

    • Posted by BH on August 10, 2018 at 5:48 am

      Lol!! You people are alllllll crazy.

      Reply

    • Posted by Coco on August 10, 2018 at 7:28 am

      Sweeney’s long awaited report. The Turnpike is an excellent addition to the pension portfolio. Maybe they should look into raising tolls on the bridges as well.

      Reply

    • Posted by Stephen Douglas on August 10, 2018 at 12:04 pm

      Word is, according the study, New Jersey state workers have a 23 percent average compensation advantage over similar private workers (this includes the cost of health care and retiree health care).

      Average compensation advantage.

      Clearly not all pensions and benefits are ludicrously excessive. Stop me if you’ve heard this before… Deferred compensation… For thousands of New Jersey workers, their pensions and benefits are enough to offset their lower wages. For thousands more, pensions are not enough to offset lower pay, therefore they earn less than equivalent private sector workers.

      “F” them if you will, but it is not right… legally, ethically, or pragmatically.

      Many of these workers will take a haircut (it’s the math… DON’T PAY THE BILLS, etc) through no fault of their own.

      Ludicrously excessive is excessively ludicrous.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on August 10, 2018 at 1:24 pm

        YUP, on average for ALL of NJ’s Public Sector (NON-SAFETY*) workers taken together …………. which is what financially impacts Taxpayers ………. the group has a 23% of pay “Total Compensation” ADVANTAGE.

        The study giving that 23% excluded NJ’s Safety workers from the data, and given that NJ’s Safety workers (Police, Paid-fire, etc.) have MUCH higher than average wages, and MUCH richer pensions & benefits, had they been included in that study, that 23% Public Sector ADVANTAGE would have assuredly been materially greater.

        Reply

      • Posted by MJ on August 10, 2018 at 2:20 pm

        Stephen at this critical point in the demise of the state, what does it really matter who makes more than who? If a private company wants to give raises, comps and generous health plans to its employees and the revenues and profits allow it so what? and if the private company is not doing well as was the case with the recession then raises and health benefits were paired back, lay offs occurred and remaining employees were expected to step up to the plates

        As in the case of NJ and elsewhere, as we read about on a daily basis, way too much was promised to way to many doing way too little with no way in hell to pay for any of it over the long term….so here we are.

        And God forbid if there are cuts, significant reforms and lay offs in the public sector, then get in the unemployment line, spruce up your resume and start applying to those generous private sector jobs you all gave up

        All of these posts and articles are like broken records…….

        Repudiate the debt that was illegally taken on without consent of the voters

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on August 10, 2018 at 3:15 pm

          Well stated !

          Reply

        • Posted by Stephen Douglas on August 10, 2018 at 5:08 pm

          “what does it really matter who makes more than who? ”

          “And God forbid if there are cuts, significant reforms and lay offs in the public sector, then get in the unemployment line, spruce up your resume and start applying to those generous private sector jobs you all gave up”

          Douglas…
          “it is not right… legally, ethically, or pragmatically.”

          Pragmatically…

          Good old free market forces. Only about 20 percent of public workers are career employees. Average tenure for public jobs is about eight years. Yes, they will spruce up their resumes.
          And yes, as El guapo said, for the high school kid, they are rightfully deciding that it is better to do something else.

          And for Brother Love, maybe “for ALL workers taken together” the so-called advantage is important, but for the applicant looking at a job which pays less, even with the pensions, they are rightfully deciding it is better to do something else.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 10, 2018 at 5:33 pm

            Those (higher paid) who join the PRIVATE Sector may well find that 50 to 60 hours/wk are commonplace and EXPECTED if you want to keep your job ……. and with no “overtime” or other compensation.

            Welcome to the “real” world where Private Sector companies must make a PROFIT to survive and have no 3-rd party suckers (i.e. taxpayers) upon whom excessive expenses can be foisted.

  2. Posted by MJ on August 10, 2018 at 7:37 am

    Why can’t the debt be legally repudiated as per our state constitution?

    Reply

    • Posted by El gaupo on August 10, 2018 at 9:56 am

      MJ, I think you will see two changes.

      1) more choices will be offered for health insurance. Instead of just one really awesome plan and one shitty plan. Then you will see the really awesome one removed or it will cost the employee more. To remain competitive you can’t charge more than 35% of the premium to the employee. Folks are paying over $1000 a month (myself included, for now).

      2) I think you will see PERS closed to new employees. Or at least the $40000 limit. The five year Is nice but I think ultimately it will be new employees. They still need to make the job attractive to teachers. There will without question be a drop off in new talent(there already is a shortage of education majors out there) if they do it to TPAF members. You won’t see it happen to PFRS members.
      Many areas(Clifton comes to mind) can’t get enough folks to take the job. Camden county PD is another. Not that attractive of a place to work. 2 cops ambushed there the other day. Newark just hired a bunch….those guys just watched while a guy jumped all over the police car.
      Me, I would’ve got out, waited for backup had a bunch of guys surround the car and then tase him and hope the guys caught him. No win situation. How do you compare that to any job in the private sector? 50 people their with cell phones going egging on the guy and the cops. Instead of trying to at least support the cop by encouraging the guy to surrender.
      If that had gone south in any way there is not one Newark politician that would back those guys. Not one. And certainly very few of the residents would have. That’s why when you talk to just about any cop, they can’t wait to get the fuck out(myself included).
      Then (not you MJ or TL), you have keyboard heroes on here saying renege 💯 on pensions. Lol. Like that would ever happen. Those guys are probably the biggest cowards of all in real life.

      Reply

      • Posted by MJ on August 10, 2018 at 2:24 pm

        El guapo as I’ve always stated, the cops who work in the shit holes of NJ deserve every penny and benefit they are currently receiving

        BTW I’m not hearing anyone saying to renege on pensions but I am hearing that significant reforms/cuts will be needed in order to sustain them

        Reply

  3. Posted by Eric on August 10, 2018 at 7:58 am

    In New Jersey, there is no contractual right to a pension, as the New Jersey Supreme Court stated in Berg. There is only a property interest in the corpus. If there is no corpus, the property interest is zero. The New Jersey Supreme Court followed the old Spina case.
    I used to read and study what the court had done, but it is probably the most corrupt entity on earth, so I stopped doing it.
    Eric
    PS Although I was an engineer by trade, and taught math for many years, I still am able to comment on the law since I have a law degree from Columbia University. Way back when, students either received an MBA or a law degree to assist them in business. I selected the law degree, but did not practice. I am glad I never practiced law.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on August 10, 2018 at 6:11 pm

      Sweeney’s a real DINO!

      Reply

    • Posted by readslikeamafiabook on August 11, 2018 at 1:32 am

      Smart move Eric. Unless you gave half of your hourly rate to some municipality or county government only to give, in addition to that, campaign contributions, you could made a fortune! How could that be? Double or triple your billing is how. Nothing else can explain it.

      Reply

  4. Posted by Anonymous on August 10, 2018 at 4:39 pm

    Ah but P&FRS beats to their own local property tax drum, guess NJ’s brightest & brilliant forgot about that little problem. And what about SPRS & JRS, gotta love those exceptions to the rule. Wonder if they’ll continue with plantinum health care coverage too?

    Reply

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  5. Posted by Anonymous on August 10, 2018 at 6:14 pm

    Forget about GASB ARC reporting, this will cash flow out the funds much faster because we know how the NJSC ruled on funding.

    Reply

  6. Posted by Anonymous on August 10, 2018 at 6:20 pm

    I’d bet somebody’s pension that whatever legislation gets passed will also exclude the legislator. Although they are in PERS they have their a little cation prefix other than 02. We’ll see…..

    Reply

  7. Posted by BH on August 10, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    I honestly feel sorry for most of you. I suggest you go find that bully who so jaded you. Perhaps you’ll find they aren’t living the life you think they are….. and you can you can enjoy yours for once. Because for all the time you spend hating other people…. the 6 or 7 of you clearly have deep seated issues. I stumbled upon this site years ago looking for something else….. and I come back from time to giggle in amusement and the same old copy paste shit from TL and the few others. You really must have some job/life that affords you alllllll this time to post and go crazy over other people’s compensation. Taxes aren’t going down and you’re gonna pay pay pay. So please, go outside. Look around. There’s life out from your holes!!!!!

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on August 10, 2018 at 7:01 pm

      Bottoms up NJ, now you’re on top. Don’t matter cause I done skatted long time ago!

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 10, 2018 at 7:44 pm

      Spoken by a NJ retired Public Sector “moocher” riding this gravy train ……… until it derails.

      Reply

      • Posted by PS Drone on August 10, 2018 at 8:21 pm

        I remember this DB. He claimed he was not on the public payroll, just empathetic with their value and the appropriateness of their comp and benefits. A DB then and a DB now. Can’t wait for long deserved financial comeuppance.

        Reply

        • Posted by El gaupo on August 10, 2018 at 9:39 pm

          Why because he played by the rules? His comeuppance? You really will be waiting for some time. Especially if he is in Pfrs. Like he said, go back in your mommies basement. Lol.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 11, 2018 at 6:14 am

            Why?

            Because HE (like you) are part of a group who were granted ludicrously excessive pensions & benefits ONLY BECUASE your Unions BOUGHT them our self-interested Elected Officials with BRIBES disguised as campaign contributions and election support.

            They were NEVER necessary, just, fair to Taxpayers, or affordable ……. and the 50% to 75% that assuredly would NOT have been granted in the absence of that Union/Elected-Official COLLUSION, should NOT be paid.

          • Posted by dentss dunnigan on August 11, 2018 at 6:30 am

            The best way ….to beat the system leave let the next person pick up the tab ….until their is no next person !

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 11, 2018 at 8:16 am

            El gaupo,

            When parties “A” and “B” cut a deal (for something of value payable in the future) that’s beneficial to both of THEM, but has UNFAIR/negative consequences for a 3-rd party (the Taxpayers) who will have been told that THEY must pay for it, EVENTUALLY, that 3-rd party wakes up ……. and says NO.

          • Posted by MJ on August 11, 2018 at 8:28 am

            El gaupo, I don’t think that anyone on here blames the public workers themselves but rather their unions and corrupt legislators who promised way too much too way to way too many for way too long without any reasonable way of paying for it……….now the publics are used to all of these very cushy and generous benefits, early retirements, perks, platinum health benefits. 35 hour work weeks, 10-15 sick days a year and ooooops btw we can’t really afford that anymore because we are about to go bankrupt.

            Do you really advocate literally running the state into the ground at the expense of everyone else to keep up this unsustainable practice???? Actually, I think it too far gone already but will be interested to see what they come up with.

            I want the cops to stay as I’d rather have less state, county, municipal and school employees and more cops on the street…Heck I’ll spring for the coffee and donuts!

            IDK………

          • Posted by PS Drone on August 11, 2018 at 9:53 am

            Yeah, he “played” by the rules. Rules warped in favor of the public sector by the corrupt politicians and the greedy, crooked unions.

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 11, 2018 at 2:59 pm

            Quoting …………

            “Yeah, he “played” by the rules. Rules warped in favor of the public sector by the corrupt politicians and the greedy, crooked unions.”

            Yes, AND Public Sector workers (like El gaupo) who have an oversized sense of “entitlement”.

  8. Posted by geo8rge on August 10, 2018 at 8:09 pm

    I think it’s called the Economic and Fiscal Policy Working Group, but I cannot find a link to the actual document. Why isn’t there an easy way to find it?

    “merging school districts into regional systems that would go from kindergarten to 12th grade. ”

    This might be more of a threat to scare people. Unlike businesses, it is not clear what the optimal size of government entities is, so combining smaller school systems into a larger one might end up having higher expenses. Some small towns in NJ operate their schools sort of like private schools, allowing out of town parents to pay to send kids there. I doubt a countywide system would be able to make schools desirable enough for that to happen.

    A potential disaster is the combined school systems are terrible and cause reductions in local property values, making a property tax dependent tax system unstable. They are playing with fire with this one, and I am not talking about upsetting voters, property tax is the golden goose they are planning to cook.

    “Incomes of up to $40,000 would be pensionable, but anything above that would be subject to a 401 (k)-style retirement plan.”

    401ks are a terrible product. One reason the pension problem can’t be solved is the 401k alternative is so bad. A possibly better choice would be for the state to purchase an annuity each year for each employee for an agreed amount face value from an agreed upon insurer. While the future value of the annuity would not be certain, the amount initially invested would be.

    “New Jersey is a very tax-sensitive state, and we have to find a way to make it more affordable,” Sweeney said.

    http://www.njchamber.com/news/nj-business-news/576-policy-group-makes-sweeping-proposals-to-fix-state-in-crisis

    Reply

  9. Posted by geo8rge on August 10, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    “New Jersey is at a crossroads. We’re beyond the crossroads — we’re in trouble. If we don’t make some changes, we will not be able to make our obligations,” Sweeney said.

    Reply

    • Posted by MJ on August 11, 2018 at 8:29 am

      Crossroads???? that’s the understatement of the year…we are half way down the toilet and what we read about is only the tip of the iceberg

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on August 11, 2018 at 9:03 am

        That’s correct ……….. although we may already be BEYOND “halfway”.

        Reply

        • Posted by El gaupo on August 11, 2018 at 3:59 pm

          Why don’t you move out if it so bad? I plan on it after I’m retired for a few years.
          And you confuse a sense of entitlement with trying to get the best deal I can for myself.
          How would you feel if I advocated for pay cuts for whatever it is you do? You wouldn’t agree w me at all. Hey, this is a grab what you can for yourself in terms of compensation economy. It’s all good. You guys act like you’re on skid row.
          Live an let live. Let the cops make whatever the can. After all, you guys do not have to worry about some scumbag ambushing you like the 2 Camden cops. And you also don’t have to worry about making split second decisions that can end someone’s life or put you on you tube like the Newark cops. We get paid well. Not rich by any stretch. So we get a pension. Big deal. Like BH said, go live your damn lives. And I’ll live mine.
          Let the corrupt politicians draw your ire. You dopes think a prosecutor works less hard than a private sector real estate? My compensation includes a pension. Wow!!! Big whoop. If yku did 30 years of police work, you sure as hell would think you deserve one too. Peace out folks.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 11, 2018 at 4:07 pm

            Quoting ……….. “And you confuse a sense of entitlement with trying to get the best deal I can for myself.”

            No I didn’t. Given your employment in a Bergen County bedroom community (with VERY little violent crime), in wages ALONE you were overpaid. Throw in your pension, 4 TIMES greater in value than that typically granted the lucky few Private Sector workers who still get DB pensions and who retire at the SAME age, with the SAME wages, and the SAME years of service, AND your free retiree healthcare insurance ………. and you are VASTLY overcompensated.

            Taxpayers should find a way to pay only a small share of what has been STOLEN from them.

          • Posted by PS Drone on August 11, 2018 at 10:46 pm

            You do deserve a pension. Just not at age 55 and not at 2.5x (or more) the max SS benefit. Come back to Earth.

          • Posted by MJ on August 13, 2018 at 7:11 am

            El gaupo, a lot of us have “moved out” I’ve stated that we sold our $13,000 a year tax house several years ago blah blah blah,….I believe it is for sale again as one of the couple was laid off
            …I wish them luck

            We’ve been renting and bc we are outstanding tenants, our rent has not gone up in 5 years and its very reasonable. Owner loves having reliable tenants who take care of his property and pay on time. Although we love it here, we won’t be committing to purchasing the ball and chain of real estate in NJ……No thanks

            ….and please stop comparing the tragedy of the two Camden cops who were shot…..’Ive stated many many times on here that the cops who work in the NJ shit holes deserve everything that they were promised!!!

          • Posted by El gaupo on August 13, 2018 at 8:22 am

            MJ. I concur 100% about renters who pay on time. My in laws divorced and after my MIL moved to VA my FIL died. We have been trying to sell the property where my wife grew up. It has a category one stream running alongside the property. Essentially cutting by 80% the value of the property thanks to a law signed in 2004. We have been butting heads with the DEP for a few years now (expensive and frustrating). In the meantime, we have been renting the home and another one that are on the property. I wouldn’t dare raise the rent on the folks that live there now. We have had some beauts thru the years and when you have a good tenant you take care of them. Thing is my MIL needs the money badly and the state sucks sometimes. We would have been better off if they eminent domained the property. Bullshit law!!!!
            However, there is a fair amount of new construction in the surrounding towns from my house. I bought a split level for $260,000 twenty years ago. Added a bedroom and bathroom in 2010 after I got promoted and my wife went back to work. I could easily sell it for $600,000 now. In fact, they have been knocking down a lot of splits. There is certainly no shortage of buyers now as millineals are finally starting to look. Talk to a Bergen county realtor and they will tell you it is a hot market.
            I know you think that city cops deserve what they get, most others on here don’t.
            But it is harder for those areas to pay the force the same as a suburban force. Not fair I guess, but unless you wanna pay for them and you pd I don’t know what to tell you. That’s why I and many like me transferred out shortly after getting hired.
            And I’ll take you up on the coffee and donuts. lol. At least you can have civil discourse with An opposing viewpoint. As you say though, this is really a waste of time to be on here because we are bored. Nothing will change because we go back and forth like this. It is all for amusement purposes. We may pull each other a bit closer to us viewpoint wise, but I’ll never get you to believe that I deserve what I get and you’ll never get me to believe that I don’t deserve it so……honestly what is the point. It’s the same nonsense every time John puts out an article on public pensions. TL has been at it for a decade.

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 13, 2018 at 10:00 am

            Quoting …………….

            “We would have been better off if they eminent domained the property. Bullshit law!!!!”

            So you don’t like being treated “unfairly” ?

            So how do you think Taxpayers feel about your ludicrously excessive compensation (pension & benefits) ?

          • Posted by MJ on August 13, 2018 at 10:28 am

            El gaupo, not to throw anybody under the bus but I believe I also stated many times that I would much rather have experienced cops in town that we can afford to pay a decent wage as opposed to excess municipal, county, school and administrative do nothings……just way too many doing way too little IMO at least the cops are visible and around when you need one. Most in my town are really nice and helpful.

            Also,, yes I see your point about paying the cops in the tough areas but I would gladly pay more via my county taxes and again get rid of all those do nothing patronage jobs……….

            My humble advice about your in laws home….unless you all can afford the legal fees, taxes, maintenance , mortgage, stress etc. just sell for whatever you can get and move on…….

          • Posted by El gaupo on August 13, 2018 at 11:13 am

            We are dying to sell it MJ. But we need to know how many lots we can fit on the property and builders will not commit to anything unless they know what can be built there. It is five + acres but lots of the area is unbuildable. We will only be able to subdivide into 3 or 4 lots. Years ago it would’ve been 8!!!!! The process of getting where we need to be is concluding and it has been expensive!!!
            As far as paying more in county taxes for police, they are trying that in Camden County. There hasn’t been any takers to join that force.
            And TL you are comparing apples to oranges, 2 completely differ……oh God. I’m sorry. I can’t keep doing this back and forth about my livelihood. I’m sorry. I need a break from it. It is a complete waste of time.
            MJ….best of luck, you seem like a good guy. I need a week or two off this site… hopefully I can come back and see how you are all doing. Peace to all.

  10. The screw the newbie, flee to Florida cycle. New Jersey will be left with sky high labor costs for public services that are collapsing because no one competent is willing to take the low-paid, low benefit jobs.

    What does Generation Greed give back under this plan?

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    • Posted by PS Drone on August 11, 2018 at 10:44 pm

      If they are “sky high labor jobs” why would they simultaneously be “low-paid, low benefit jobs? Reality is that drone jobs will be re-priced at much lower total comp (pay plus benefits).

      Reply

      • Posted by El gaupo on August 12, 2018 at 8:11 am

        He said labor costs. And I think he meant that the costs will be high because they won’t be able to fill them with competent people at the lower pay and benifit package. Just like many of the teaching jobs in the red states.
        Supply and demand. Those striking teachers got everything they wanted. Why? No qualified replacements available. Literally.

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        • Posted by MJ on August 12, 2018 at 10:47 am

          El gaupo,,,,,,,,sooooooo if there are “literally” no qualified applicants for teaching jobs what does that say about our education system in general? After all, getting a teaching degree is one of the easiest majors and every teacher gets the same raise whether they are good at teaching or not……so if there are no competent people to take public sector jobs at lower pay and benefits what does that say about having a skilled and educated work force……IMO not much, therefore, we have an even greater problem.

          Supply and demand?? For every full time teaching job that opens I would bet there are hundreds of applicants. How do I know? bc I have friends who are teachers in various districts and every job that opens via a retirement they receive stacks of applications……..even with the tenuous sure to be reformed system in place. So I think there will be plenty of “qualified” (whatever that means) people to fill all public sector jobs even with lower pay and benefits

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          • Posted by Tough Love on August 12, 2018 at 1:35 pm

            There are TEACHING fields which require specialized skills and knowledge …. particularly in the STEM fields.

            The BIG joke inflicted upon Taxpayers is the purported lack of “qualified” applicants for Police Officer positions. Given the often 100+ to 1 ratio of applicants to openings, and the common knowledge that those with a criminal/drug history need not apply, it’s preposterous to believe that there aren’t AT LEAST 10 VERY-well-qualified applicants for each position that becomes available.

            That “lack of qualified applicants” for Police Office positions is BOGUS in-the-extreme, and well-qualified applicants are excluded to make it LOOK LIKE the pool of “qualified” applicants is so small …….. as part of their efforts to keep compensation at the ludicrously excessive levels that they are today.

            Nobody is being fooled El gaupo.

          • Posted by El gaupo on August 12, 2018 at 4:23 pm

            The topic was teacher pay in other states. Not yet in NJ. We are getting there. And yes MJ, why do you think the teachers in WV,OK etc got everything they asked for? Because no one wants the job. I know first hand!!! I have a sis in law who teaches in rural VA. The beautiful shenendoah valley. She makes $41000 a year after 20 years in the school and she has a master’s degree. They have trouble recruiting. Is it really hard to understand? Folks don’t want to do that because the pay sucks.
            And TL, nice deflection but check out articles on Clifton Pd. Camden county PD etc. they are having trouble retaining people(I guess not recruiting but still). And in the case with police, there is also the added negatives of shift work and dealing with the public in today’s climate. NJSP is also having trouble retaining people. The better dept do not. Ten years from now when my generation is retired, very few will have the standard of living that I and my cohorts have. That’s a fact jack.

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 12, 2018 at 7:09 pm

            Quoting ………….

            “And TL, nice deflection but check out articles on Clifton Pd. Camden county PD etc. they are having trouble retaining people”

            Not surprising, why should Police CHOOSE to work in a DANGEROUS Town when they can get a cushy job like YOU have in a VERY low-crime town with great WAGES and LUDICROUS pension & Benefits ………….. none of which is necessary, just, fair to Taxpayers, or affordable ?

            ——————————–

            Quoting …………..

            ” Ten years from now when my generation is retired, very few will have the standard of living that I and my cohorts have. ”

            Hopefully, Taxpayers will succeed in bringing you AT LEAST down to that level by materially reducing your pension and retiree healthcare benefits.

          • Posted by El gaupo on August 12, 2018 at 9:51 pm

            So, you admit that there are indeed some places that have trouble keeping people on the payroll. Hmmm. Usually that means that they are not offering a competitive compensation package. They will be the canary in the coal mine. And who wouldn’t want to work in a better paying, safer town. Suburban policing is a whole different ball of wax. Done both. The residents (god bless them) in our town want to have their asses wiped by the department. Lol. Jk of course, it just seems that way, but they in general are more appreciative of us than urban areas. And we enjoy a decent relationship with the folks in town. And I know u agree w me about the teachers in other state. Why? Because you have a brain. Lol.

          • Posted by El gaupo on August 12, 2018 at 9:57 pm

            Is there any wonder why there is a retention problem in some urban areas? Today’s ny post had a video provided by the nypd of two cops that responded to a call of a fight. While leaving an apartment they were cursed at, “fuck you, pussy” “suck my d***” etc all while videoing the whole incident. Who needs that crap?? That is a real problem. 50 years ago, the cops would’ve just beat the shit out of those guys. Now, we have safe spaces and sensitivity training and de escalation training and I need to be aware of my implicit bias and made to check my male privilege. Sad. You want to talk about the real world, those folks that behave like that will never make it in the real world and will either be on food stamps or in jail and you and I will be paying for it.

          • Posted by MJ on August 13, 2018 at 7:19 am

            TL yes I agree that there are some areas that need more highly qualified people than others as far as teaching. The problem comes in that no body can get rid of the shitty teachers who hang on via their unions who protect them. Even with our great education system in NJ a large majority of HS graduates can’t pass a simple math and English placement exam for community college so is that the fault of the school district, a teacher????

            BTW…with the advent of online courses, online technology etc we won’t be needing as many teachers in the general programs just in the more specialized STEM programs

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 13, 2018 at 8:16 am

            Quoting …………….. “The problem comes in that no body can get rid of the shitty teachers who hang on via their unions who protect them. ”

            Can we get rid of “shitty” cops?

            It will be interesting to see if the NJ Palisades Parkway Police chief (if found guilty) is quickly fired …. or not.

        • The average labor costs will be high.

          And yet no one will take the jobs because the wages and benefits for NEW HIRES will be low.

          The money will be going to Generation Greed, and to Florida.

          Reply

          • Posted by MJ on August 13, 2018 at 7:13 am

            Larry can you define exactly who you mean by generation greed???

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 13, 2018 at 8:18 am

            El gaupo is the epidome of “generation greed”.

          • Posted by El gaupo on August 13, 2018 at 8:31 am

            Nah… I’m a gen Xer. The baby boomers are the ones known as generation greed.

            And the problem isn’t getting rid of shitty teachers in these areas, it is that they can’t receuit qualified applicants.
            And if the PIP Chief is found guilty fire him!!! I’ve never backed keeping cops/teachers in their positions when they didn’t deserve it. I just think there should be an objective process(there is) that protects me from dismissal cause the mayor want to replace me with his buddy. Happens ALL the time in non protected political appointee positions.

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 13, 2018 at 8:46 am

            A good definition of those belonging to generation greed are those who “take” and “take” and “take” FAR more than they contribute (leaving it for OTHERS to pay for) and are justifiably entitled to based upon their contributions to society.

            El gaupo, based on your LUDICROUSLY EXCESSIVE compensation as a LEO in a low-crime NJ town, you fit that to a tee.

  11. Posted by MJ on August 13, 2018 at 10:29 am

    TL…..I specifically asked Larry to define what he meant not you

    I do like to hear what others think and hear other perspectives

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 13, 2018 at 1:38 pm

      Sorry, didn’t know you were authorized to dictate the rules for comments ……… lol

      Reply

      • Posted by MJ on August 13, 2018 at 5:50 pm

        TL I directed the question to Larry since he made the statement but of course you can chime in at any time.

        El gaupo I’m with you, I’m outta here for awhile. See you on the beach, I’ll bring the coffee and donuts and some wine!!

        Peace and brotherhood to all:)

        Reply

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