NJ Policy Group (4) Selling State For Pensions

The official GASB 67 unfunded liability for the New Jersey Retirement System as of July 1, 2017 is supposed to be $142 billion. The Economic and Fiscal Policy Working Group in a draft document included an entire category of recommendations for dealing with this debt:

Two main problems:

  1. It’s not nearly enough. Slapping tolls on out-of-staters, inventorying marketable assets for quick sales*, and leasing out backrooms will not get it done.
  2. These are not the ones who piled up the debt though most of those taxpayers, retirees, and politicians who did are unreachable now.

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* To avoid being labelled as totally negative I do have a revenue generating suggestion. ‘New Jersey’ is bland, derivative, and british-centric. We can do better and make some money for the pension system at the same time. Trumponia?

45 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by skip3house on June 22, 2018 at 10:16 am

    Let’s not turn NJ over to overly promised pensioned people. Give them what their elected reps voted for/taxed us for in each of their working years, plus own contributions and interest. Why on this Earth would we tax future people for services performed yesteryear?
    As i saw Mark Twain remark about diapers/politicians…change both often for same reason.
    Just typing the word Trumpania gives me reason to doubt all government systems. Place all continuously accrued pension benefits in control of person they belong to.

    Reply

  2. Posted by boscoe on June 22, 2018 at 10:58 am

    Perhaps you wouldn’t have to tax future people for services performed yesteryear if you had taxed current people for services performed concurrently?

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on June 22, 2018 at 12:49 pm

      Horseshit.

      If you take all the taxpayer pension contributions ALREADY MADE over the years, it is VERY likely sufficient to have funded 100% of a pension (or 401K contribution) EQUAL in value to those typically granted comparable Private Sector workers.

      Public Sector workers NEVER “deserved” the MUCH MUCH MUCH better deal they were granted, and rather that suck MORE out of the Taxpayers (by giving away NJ state assets that at least conceptually belong to ALL NJ residents, NOT just Public Sector employees), we should seek out every means to RENEGE on the 50+% share of Public Sector pensions that assuredly would NOT have been granted in the absence of the Public Sector Union/Elected-Official COLLUSION ……….. with the former BUYING the favorable votes (on Public Sector pay, pensions, and benefits) of the latter with BRIBES disguised as campaign contributions and election support.

      Reply

      • Posted by Stephen Douglas on June 22, 2018 at 1:00 pm

        Not a substitute for logic or empirical data.

        Reply

      • Posted by El gaupo on June 22, 2018 at 2:45 pm

        TL. Do you think it is fine for multi national corporations to donate to political campaigns? Koch brothers perhaps? Cause ya know. There is nothing wrong with burning coal. Americans for Properity right?
        If they can buy votes to the detriment of he people at large, why can’t public employees try to improve their lot by trying to not have Christie types elected??

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on June 22, 2018 at 5:40 pm

          Quoting …………… ” Do you think it is fine for multi national corporations to donate to political campaigns? ”

          NO………… and you have my blessing in making that YOUR cause.

          I’ll stick to advocating to reverse the enormous ripoff perpetrated upon NJ’s Taxpayers by our insatiably greedy Public Sector Unions/workers and the Elected Officials who have enabled it.

          Reply

          • Posted by boscoe on June 22, 2018 at 7:08 pm

            Maybe you ought to advocate somewhere other than the 15 people who populate this blogfest every day. Go picket the State House. Stage a sit-in at your legislative office. Set off a stinkbomb at your favorite union headquarters. Do something productive.

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 22, 2018 at 7:19 pm

            And you Boscoe ?

          • Posted by boscoe on June 22, 2018 at 8:45 pm

            I’ll meet up with you as soon as I finish my mindful meditation. You bring the fire, I’ll bring the brimstone.

          • Posted by El gaupo on June 22, 2018 at 11:39 pm

            Boscoe- 15 people? More like 6. Lol. I think all of us need to get out a little more. I’m first on the list I suppose.

          • Actually 15 unique commenters (with emphasis on the unique) a day is pretty close based on IP addresses.

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 23, 2018 at 5:09 am

            John,

            Congratulations on your Blog Stats crossing 1 Million (just noticed) !

          • Posted by El gaupo on June 23, 2018 at 9:53 am

            Ok. 15. I stand corrected. Lol. I figured TL smothering presence on here made it seem like more. 😝
            Unique? Yes. Thankfully TL is one of a kind….
            She has a problem with EQUAL

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 23, 2018 at 10:01 am

            No El gaupo, YOU have a problem with equal. I can assure you that few (if ANY) in the private Sector get $125/hr for doing next to NOTHING (but sitting in a Patrol car and looking at your cell phone) for hours on end.

            And let me know when the value of your pension is reduced by 75%, because that’s about what it would take for it to be equal to the retirement security typically provided Private Sector workers by their employers.

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on June 23, 2018 at 10:33 am

            I can assure you that few (if ANY) in the __public___ Sector get $125/hr for doing next to NOTHING (but sitting in a Patrol car and looking at your cell phone) for hours on end.

            That was a sham… and you fell for it.

        • We are all doomed. Here’s why, according to Ed Ring.

          “When government unions control the government, big business either gets out of the way or gets on board. The idea that government unions protect the public interest against big corporate interests is absurd. Government union backed policies create deficits that bond issuers earn billions underwriting. Excessive pension benefits create additional hundreds of billions in pension fund assets invested on Wall Street. Excessive regulations are enforced by additional unionized government employees, to which only the biggest corporations can afford to comply. Government unions enable and enrich the largest corporate and financial interests at the expense of small independent businesses and emerging competitors.”

          Multi national corporations are a cancer upon society.

          Reply

          • Posted by El gaupo on June 24, 2018 at 9:03 pm

            Reading too much into it. Government unions are specifically there to advocate for their members. Nothing more.

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 24, 2018 at 9:26 pm

            Indeed El gaupo ……………. by BUYING the favorable votes (on Public Sector pay, pensions, and benefits) of our Elected Officials with BRIBES disguised as campaign contributions.

            Your Public Sector Unions leaders should be prosecuted for Bribery and Racketeering.

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on June 24, 2018 at 9:40 pm

            Déjà pu

            You’re as bad as Rex the Wonder Dog. If you think the spirit or letter of the law has been violated, hire a lawyer. Put you money where your CAPS LOCK is.

  3. Posted by Analyst on June 22, 2018 at 11:10 am

    What is your plan that can generate revenue ?

    Reply

    • Posted by skip3house on June 22, 2018 at 12:21 pm

      If we do not intend to honor special interest unfunded political promises, why even consider how to generate revenue?

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on June 22, 2018 at 2:14 pm

        And we SHOULDN’T honor ……………. “special interest unfunded political promises”

        Reply

  4. Posted by NJ2AZ on June 22, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    As soon as the boomers lose their death-grip on the political process, i expect the younger generations to put it to them.

    Reply

  5. Posted by Tough Love on June 22, 2018 at 2:36 pm

    Here’s where the United Sates is headed if we don’t bite-the-bullet (while we still can) and get rid of the huge number of UNNECESSARY (or more efficiently done via outsourcing to the Private Sector) Public Sector jobs…………..

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-20/workers-paid-to-do-nothing-a-ghost-army-that-haunts-gulf-rulers

    Reply

  6. Posted by geo8rge on June 23, 2018 at 9:52 am

    HOT lanes? High Occupancy vehicle lanes are like so 1980s. How about eliminating all tolls for ez pass vehicles and charge those vehicles based on speed. You want to go 50-55 mph you get charged the current rates. You want to go 70-80 you get charged a much higher rate. You want to go Corzine (100+ mph) you get charged a way higher rate*. The Garden State and the Turnpike will conform to autobahn rules, you must ($100 fine and 1 point) exit the left lane when approached by a faster vehicle and no passing on the right.

    * Corzine mode is only available for some vehicles and Black card (see below) certified drivers.

    I noticed credit card companies have a color system. Bronze, silver, gold, and the ultimate black card. Why not NJ drivers licenses. The driver would have to put their card in a card reading ez pass. You would need an up to date and paid up Black card to go Corzine on the Garden State. Yeah, any punk with a hit song can have a Lambo, but only paid up Black Card certified drivers can go Corzine in it.

    A black card could entitle the driver to other privileges such as red lights would be downgraded to a stop sign for qualified black card drivers. Black card drivers would also be entitled to use the police reserved color blue flashing lights and a siren.

    And don’t worry about accidents, New Jersey will require Black Card drivers to have auto limits of $50 million per incident (I think I’ve see school buses on the parkway).

    Corzine reference explained:

    Corzine crash spotlights SUV safety
    http://archive.fortune.com/2007/04/19/magazines/fortune/pluggedin_corzine.fortune/index.htm

    Reply

    • Posted by geo8rge on June 23, 2018 at 9:55 am

      For extra $$$$ your black card would be decorated with a blue strip entitling the cardholder to use police reserved color blue flashing lights and a siren

      Reply

    • Posted by El gaupo on June 23, 2018 at 10:08 am

      Lol. Classic. And as a black card license holder….I would presumably be impressed with your commitment to safe driving and be reluctant to summons.
      I remember the hov lanes on 287. They’ve been gone for 20 years now. Tolls are fine. Like crossing the Delaware. But the PA tolls and even parkway now(thanks Christie—for both) are outrageous!!! I didn’t forget Christie boys at the PA gave a nice inflated toll number so his majesty could insist on a lower number and be the working class hero!!! What a disgusting piece of shit they all were. Oh yeah….not chris He was blindsided!!!!
      Quick let’s yell at a guy on the beach with my ice cream cone, or at the brewers game, that one was a classic with his big pile of nachos. Throw a teacher on you tube. Let everyone pile on her for asking a question. Superstorm sandy the list goes on and on. Ending with giving Dana Redd her pension payback for her support for his disastrous presidential campaign. The fat fuck routinely charged US taxpayers over and above the customary allowance at hotels as a US attorney. Never was in the state his second term and looked like trumps bitch boy in that one speech. lol. A disaster of a governor and an even worse human being.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on June 23, 2018 at 5:03 pm

        Yeah, but he certainly got you good with pension reductions ……. especially the COLA-suspension, your pet peeve.

        Reply

        • Posted by El gaupo on June 23, 2018 at 9:58 pm

          And his bought and paid for judges paved for the way for that. That was the thing about Christie dating back to the unprecedented firing of the judge(Wallace?) in his first term. No one crosses him. Typical bully!! Mastro report, booker special election(cause ya know, some folks might vote straight dem if booker on my ticket and I have to step on Buono throat so I become president), trip to the kingdom of Jordan. On and on it goes. Obviously I hate the man. I wish him the worst in life. He is a disgusting piece of filth as far as I am concerned. You wanna worship that fat ass of his be my guest. I honestly would not piss on him if he was on fire.

          I never voted for him. Always voted gop before him. Our union didn’t back him. But he sent out a nice letter to every pba member under a group called Law Enforcement for Christie promising to never touch our pensions. Despite our pba backing Corzine, many many cops and their families voted for The fat man…and he won by 100,000 votes. My fellow officers had buyers remorse with that one almost immediately.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 23, 2018 at 10:12 pm

            Quoting ……………

            “And his bought and paid for judges paved for the way for that.”

            Oh isn’t that too bad. It’s ABOUT TIME your Union couldn’t BUY what it wanted …………….. having gotten WAY WAY too much already.

          • Posted by dens dunnigan on June 24, 2018 at 4:37 pm

            “That was the thing about Christie dating back to the unprecedented firing of the judge(Wallace?)”…nope sorry Judge was not fired

        • Posted by El gaupo on June 23, 2018 at 10:00 pm

          The cola suspension was the only thing but it still was complete bullshit. Hopefully, with some comprise on the age of retirement that returns for are older retirees who are hurting and have no SS. Not saying raise taxes for it. Saying let actives work more years and you the savings to help those guys out.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 23, 2018 at 10:15 pm

            Quoting ……………..

            “Older workers who are “hurting” ….

            Now THAT’s BS. Police wages, pensions, and benefits have been outrageous for so long, any retiree “hurting” (after a full career) would have had to retire in the 1970s.

          • Posted by El gaupo on June 24, 2018 at 10:09 am

            TL. When I started I replaced a patrolman whose base pay was $60,000 total. He sanded floors on the side. His pension was $40,000 and he retired in 1995 at age 58. He would have stayed but was forced out because he really had no computer knowledge and was of an entirely different era. Otherwise he would’ve stayed. Of course he did not get SS when he turned 65 and in fairness to him 457 plans only came about about half way through his career at best. Where do you think he would be after 23 years(he’s died in 2013)
            With no modest adjustment to his pension allowance? He by no stretch of the imagination was like the guys of today pulling pin w six figures. Had a sick wife to support. $40k in north jersey is nothing. If we got SS as teachers and other public employees do I would not advocate for it. But we do not, or if we do it is cut by up to 90% even the private sector pension folks are not. My father has a nice pension and he gets full SS. Equal?? Not there. I’ll even comprimise give me sS and I’ll never even ask for a cola again. Like I said, sling arrows at me and my six figure annual payout. I get that. But if you are being fair, why deny a 80 yr old guy a modest cola(which was always .6 of the sS cola anyway). Oh wow, his pension may have gone up to $50000 over 20 years. And back then there sure as hell didn’t make $125 hr on traffic details.

          • Posted by El gaupo on June 24, 2018 at 10:16 am

            TL. When I started I replaced a patrolman whose base pay was $60,000 total. He sanded floors on the side. His pension was $40,000 and he retired in 1995 at age 58. He would have stayed but was forced out because he really had no computer knowledge and was of an entirely different era. Otherwise he would’ve stayed. Of course he did not get SS when he turned 65 and in fairness to him 457 plans only came about about half way through his career at best. Where do you think he would be after 23 years(he’s died in 2013)
            With no modest adjustment to his pension allowance? He by no stretch of the imagination was like the guys of today pulling pin w six figures. Had a sick wife to support. $40k in north jersey is nothing. If we got SS as teachers and other public employees do I would not advocate for it. But we do not, or if we do it is cut by up to 90% even the private sector pension folks are not. My father has a nice pension and he gets full SS. Equal?? Not there. I’ll even comprimise give me sS and I’ll never even ask for a cola again. Like I said, sling arrows at me and my six figure annual payout. I get that. But if you are being fair, why deny a 80 yr old guy a modest cola(which was always .6 of the sS cola anyway). Oh wow, his pension may have gone up to $50000 over 20 years. And back then there sure as hell didn’t make $125 hr on traffic details.
            And I stand fully behind my comments on the gov. I’m not a political guy by any metric in public (parties and such—even with trump).
            But I am w Christie. I’ll tell anyone, his most vocal supporter how I truly feel about that man.
            But some guys (minority) still don’t get it. I was talking to a retired sheriff guybworking security in my town. Tells me how he voted for Guadagno. Said Murphy gonna take his guns. Yea, just like Hillary. She cmon after your grandpappy’s six shooter. Fuckin moron. She was Christie 2.0 and you gonna vote for her because of 2A stuff?? For real?
            Voted for Christie. Twice!!!!! Why? Fuckin moron.

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 24, 2018 at 4:36 pm

            El gaupo,

            Only Public Sector workers live in this strange place where (in THEIR minds) the Taxpayers are supposed to take care of ALL of their retirement needs via a pension & healthcare.

            Even in the heyday of Private Sector Plans that was NEVER the case for Private Sector workers. I’m sure you heard of the 3-legged stool wherein 1/3 of your retirement needs came from a pension, another 1/3 from SS, and the last 1/3 from personal savings.

            You seem to believe that that older Police officer’s $40,000 was all he had…… also ignoring that BY ITSELF it assuredly was considerably greater that the pensions of similarly-paid Private Sector workers. Sure he didn’t get SS, but he ALSO didin’t pay for it so we (the Taxpayers) have every right to assume that he saved and invested that 6.2% of gross pay IN ADDITION to that 3-leg leg of additional Savings………. and if he didn’t (save and invest that 6.2%), it’s HIS problem, not the Taxpayers’ problem.

            While the deal that officer got was likely not a ludicrously excessive as YOURS, it assuredly was considerably greater than that granted a comparably situated Private Sector worked over the same time-period.
            ——————–

            And as usual with your constant COLA-complaints, Corporate-sponsored Single-employer pensions (which make up about 75% of ALL Private Sector pensions) almost never include COLA provisions…….. EVER. You’re NOT “special” and deserving of a better deal …. on the Taxpayers’ dime.

          • Posted by El gaupo on June 24, 2018 at 9:15 pm

            I stand by my statement TL. The pay was shit in the 60’s thru 80’s into the early nineties. No SS and no 457 yet. Said right in the Pfrs handbook that would get a cola equal to 60% of the social security cola. Then after these guys are retired and can’t work anymore, Christie takes it away and the judges he appointed back him.
            @dens And yes Wallace or whatever the fuck his name was, wasn’t reappointed. I’m sure you knew exactly what I meant smartass

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 24, 2018 at 9:21 pm

            Quoting El gaupo …………….

            ” Said right in the Pfrs handbook that would get a cola equal to 60% of the social security cola. Then after these guys are retired and can’t work anymore, Christie takes it away and the judges he appointed back him.”

            Tough luck, Private Sector Single-employer Corporate-sponsored Plans get zero COLAS. You deserve no more than those who pay your way.

  7. Posted by geo8rge on June 23, 2018 at 10:13 am

    Capture hidden value in assets – Renting prison cells on air B N B? Are they serious?

    My guess is if you sold the beaches you would ring up serious billions, like hundreds of billions. What would Deal pay the state to keep the riff raff off the beach? Look at how long the NJ coastline is and how much of it has barrier islands that have 2 coastlines each plus the mainland coastline. That 3x the coastline. Oh sure the people in the shore towns that have to pay for it will gripe at the cost, and the people inland who are excluded will gripe, but the retirees won’t gripe, they are in Florida (and beyond) enjoying real beaches, resorts, golf courses and theme parks.

    NJ coastline 130 miles. Let’s say 300 miles of sellable beach due to barrier islands. Now isn’t owning a mile of beach in NJ worth a billion $$$$$$? Pension problem solved.

    Your crummy shore town can’t afford it? Easy answer, change zoning laws to allow high rise condos. Problem solved and you won’t have to deal with the upkeep and maintenance of a house on the shore.

    Oh, the state will have to put in some inland amenities to accomodate the newly wealthy east Asian and Middle Eastern shore residents. I am thinking a Cape May to NYC high speed rail line and the crummy ferries will be replaced by hydrofoils and hovercraft. After Cape May NYC is complete, Cape May to DC will begin construction.

    Reply

  8. Posted by Analyst on June 23, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    What is your revenue generating solution?

    Reply

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