Breaking Pension Piggy Bank Again in NJ

New Jersey Treasurer Elizabeth Muoio told a legislative committee today that structural budget troubles are accelerating and the state is on track for a $2.4 billion deficit for the fiscal year that starts July 1 even with:

With no new taxes likely and no April surprise, that pretty much leaves the Christie option.

Let’s vote again.

44 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by El gaupo on May 21, 2018 at 4:57 pm

    All I can say is thank god I am in Pfrs.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on May 21, 2018 at 7:06 pm

      You’re gonna need more than God if you expect to paid the LUDICROUS amount that you have been promised.

      But your retiree healthcare benefits will take the first hit.

      Reply

      • Posted by El gaupo on May 21, 2018 at 7:46 pm

        Nah. We both know that I’ll be just fine. Town pays for my medical. As I said, new hires do not get after retirement anymore in exchange for getting it free for the folks still here. Finite amount of people. Pfrs will be good for decades yet. It doesn’t matter how much Murphy puts into the fund. (I do hope he fully funds it). The towns pay in and have been this whole while. In the unlikely event I get curtailed I have been smart enough to max out 457 most years and Roth mostbyears. Also plan to work for private insurance company(like you…) when I retire. I will be just fine. Thanks for worrying TL.
        I honestly, no joke, wish you nothing the best financially, socially etc. I truly hope that your golden years and until then are awesome for you. Really. I do not see u as the enemy here and appreciate your input.

        Reply

  2. Posted by NJ2AZ on May 21, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    this is great material to use when people insist we need to turn my new state blue..

    Reply

    • Posted by El gaupo on May 21, 2018 at 5:57 pm

      How are those public schools workin out for ya?
      You’ve done what I advocate. Work here, retire there.

      Reply

      • Posted by NJ2AZ on May 21, 2018 at 6:54 pm

        i’m not retired. my kids schools are pretty good, but if they aren’t its on me as a parent to address is.

        all the red state problems, i can mitigate their effects on me or my family with additional effort.

        blue state’s just tax me into oblivion for very little improvement.

        Reply

        • Posted by El gaupo on May 21, 2018 at 7:39 pm

          Nah. I firmly think best bet is to make your money here, sell and retire there. You’re doing well though. I just would’ve held on a couple more years if you could. Because the school systems are so much better here. Most of the countries smart folks were raised in blue states (like yourself). Depending on where my kids live, I’ll probably join you. Although I don’t really like the heat. Lol.

          Reply

          • Posted by NJ2AZ on May 21, 2018 at 10:06 pm

            my dad is the poster child for what you describe. finally got him to retire out here a few years ago after living 60+ years in union county. When he learned his new property tax bill, he joked that he’d walk down to town hall and pay it in cash.

            me, i never fit in with NJ. Though where i live in AZ is comparable to where i live in NJ. Its interesting. Like anywhere you go, the ‘good’ areas are good regardless of the party in control, and the bad areas are bad regardless of who is in control. At least out here i’m not paying out the wazoo to have my money flushed down the toilet in trouble areas while an army of inept bureaucrats get rich

            I have no belief at all that turning AZ blue would suddenly fix our schools (the ones that need fixing anyways) , just like all the Abbot funding hasn’t fixed those schools back home.

          • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 8:54 am

            I’m happy for your Dad and hope he is enjoying life. I hope to be like him one day. I will obviously have a better standard of living as a retired NJ cop there than as a retired AZ cop. Lol. That’s why for me, it makes total sense to finish my career here. Get my kids through high school and then decide what to do. Their future plans may influence me. Like I said, I don’t want to be the grandpa that they only see on holidays once or twice a year.

        • Posted by skip3house on May 21, 2018 at 8:05 pm

          Hi NJ2AZ, Wave to my younger brother who relocated to AZ ~45 years ago. First he tried Pueblo,. Co. The June postcard stated ‘beautiful as Heaven’.Next card said ‘I’m not staying anywhere it snows in August ‘
          He will be the big guy with a full head of grey hair, and that forced Western drawl tinged wit da Joisy axent.

          Reply

        • Posted by El gaupo on May 21, 2018 at 8:57 pm

          And just for the record….I was (like most of my fellow officers) right leaning. I had not voted anything but GOP my whole life until 2009 when I voted for Corzine. (Voted McCain in 08) Most of my fellow officers confused being tough on crime with supporting police officers and helped vote in the fat asshole in 09. Not me. Since then every cop I know has voted for Murphy. Christie was a liar and terrible to law enforcement. We were all glad to see him go. It also opened my eyes and to not vote the party anymore. GOP made me the enemy in my own state. While I am hardly liberal, they have never tried to cut my salary and bennies. Fuck Christie and good riddance. Murphy NEVER would have won if Christie wasn’t such an asshole.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 21, 2018 at 10:06 pm

            Financially, Christie was the BEST thing that EVER happened to NJ. Who else would have put his foot in the mouths of the insatiably greedy Public Sector Unions?

            Evidence………… Christie single-handedly cost you and thousands of others your COLAs ……………. saving Taxpayers a boatload of money with more to come for MANY years.

            THANK YOU past Gov. Christie !

          • Posted by MJ on May 22, 2018 at 7:29 am

            TL….Christie worked to eliminate the COLAs only because he knew what terrible shape the pensions were in (they all know)…this just gave the pensions a few extra years and I don’t know about you but everyone I know, their real estate taxes still went up along with everything else…he didn’t want a Murphy situation on his watch if you can call it that

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 22, 2018 at 9:33 am

            Quoting El gaupo ……………… “I don’t know about you but everyone I know, their real estate taxes still went up”

            Yes they did, but assuredly less than they would have had COLAs NOT been suspended.

          • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 9:36 am

            You’re quoting MJ on that last one

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 22, 2018 at 10:46 am

            Ooophs I made a mistake, it was MJ.

            (see Stephen Douglas ………. it’s not that hard to admit to a mistake)

          • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 2:07 pm

            You should learn to do it more often. 😀

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 22, 2018 at 2:52 pm

            El gaupo,

            No problem ……….. WHEN I make a “mistake”. Opinions that differ from mine, do not constitute my making a mistake.

            E,g, When I say your pension is LUDICROUSLY excessive (now being just about 4 TIMES greater in value upon retirement than that typically granted Private Sector workers who retire at the SAME age, with the SAME wages, and the SAME years of service), no matter how you respond, you’ll never find me agreeing that such statement from me was a “mistake”.

            Now if you were being honest/above-board, you might respond by saying something like ……. “your likely correct, but tough noogies, I not giving it back.”

            I (and others) can handle that, but at least you’ll me admitting that your a “moocher”.

          • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 4:18 pm

            You’re likely correct, but tough noogies, I’m not giving it back. 🤓

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on May 22, 2018 at 4:36 pm

            “Now if you were being honest/above-board, you might respond by saying something like ……. “your likely correct, but tough noogies, I not giving it back.”

            I (and others) can handle that, but at least you’ll me admitting that your a “moocher”.

            You are once again conflating opinion and data. We appreciate that you prefer your Public Sector workers “taken as a group”, but that’s not the way it works in real life. In real life, some public workers earn more than equivalent private sector workers. Some earn much less, even with the alleged LUDICROUSLY excessive pensions*. And, as always, between those two extremes are thousands, or hundreds of thousands of private/public workers who are “roughly equal”. (Ergo, by logical deduction, __not__ moochers.) It’s axiomatic __and__ empirically verified by Andrew Biggs, among others.

            *It is invalid to compare pensions outside the context of total compensation.

          • Posted by Earth on May 22, 2018 at 4:47 pm

            Earth to Stephen:

            It’s a Brave New World. We noticed you never mentioned anything about spelling, grammar, syntax, (or logic).

            And El gaupo just made the necessary correction without criticism.

            You guys are the bomb, and  

            “I not giving it back.”

          • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 6:15 pm

            Too Earth and Stephen: Thanks!! (Waiting for TL to tell me your one in the same)
            Earth Wind and Fire baby!!!

          • Posted by Stephen Douglas on May 22, 2018 at 6:59 pm

            In an earlier (and sometimes alternate) incarnation, I was/am the eponymous S Moderation Douglas.

            Moderation… It’s not just a name, it’s a way of life.

            It’s all good. I happen to know that Brother Love his own self has sometimes posted as “Anonymous” (or possibly other handles) during the great hissy-fit of 2016.

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 22, 2018 at 7:18 pm

            Stephen Douglas,

            When you switch to posting under your alter ego, are you looking in a mirror ?

            Just curious.

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 22, 2018 at 7:19 pm

            El gaupo,

            Just loved you response ……………. “You’re likely correct, but tough noogies, I’m not giving it back. 🤓”
            ————————————————————–
            If only you had acknowledged the “moocher” part.

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 22, 2018 at 7:46 pm

            El gaupo (re Earth and Stephen Douglas) ………….

            “Too Earth and Stephen: Thanks!! (Waiting for TL to tell me your one in the same)”

            Your wait is over ………….. they ARE one and the same.

          • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 9:25 pm

            Can we agree on half a mooch? Half mooch, half handsome one. Lol.

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 22, 2018 at 9:54 pm

            Sure …………… lol

          • Posted by El gaupo on May 23, 2018 at 10:41 am

            Just please don’t confuse me w the Mooch. Trump’s guy. 🤢🤢

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 23, 2018 at 3:02 pm

            This you ?

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

          • Posted by Tough Love on May 23, 2018 at 3:04 pm

            lol ………… the above was simply the location of a picture of the Mooch.

  3. Posted by boscoe on May 21, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    I would respectfully suggest that everyone not get their underwear in a twist over budget posturing that goes on in Trenton in April and May. This is a ritual. That $2.4 billion “structural deficit” the State Treasurer talked about does not mean very much in terms of actual FY 2019 budget negotiations. A structural deficit is calculated under the assumption that all state laws (e.g., municipal aid) are fully funded. Something that hasn’t happened in ages. We will have a budget, there will be necessary compromises by all parties, Murphy will have to back off some of his promises and Sweeney and company will do the same. I do not envision a budget stalemate on July 1, although there may be some hurt feelings and resentment. Keep watching, but I am pretty sure things will more or less work out. And the pension funds will receive all or close to all of what has been promised (which is still less than it needs to be). Famous last words? Possible, but I expect us to grease through.

    Reply

    • Posted by El gaupo on May 21, 2018 at 8:51 pm

      I agree 💯 w you

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on May 21, 2018 at 10:09 pm

      I also agree with you…………….. but sure am hoping Sweeney’s “Pension Committee” gets a good many of the STRUCTURAL Pension/Benefits changes that he says are desperately needed.

      Reply

    • Posted by NJ2AZ on May 21, 2018 at 10:10 pm

      normally i’d bet they would short the pension to some degree…but it being Murphys first time makes me wonder if he can risk it.

      at a minimum, i say they put in some modest amount more than whatever the biggest payment was under Christie so they can say as much.

      Reply

      • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 7:12 am

        Who knows. They might allow the tax increases with a sunset date of June 30 2019 with the expectation of sports gambling and eventually legal pot to enable them to roll back the tax. Yea right. It would have to have a sunset date in the bill to have any chance.

        Reply

        • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 8:25 am

          I think they are low balling the sports book revenue. The borgata (my casino of choice, the 1 or 2 times a year I gamble lol, and I hate the fact that you can smoke indoors. Ewww.) will kill it.
          They will modify the Race book room to accomadate sports book. On bigger events like nfl playoff, super bowl and final four weekend, I can see the Music Box or even the Event Hall or conference rooms being modified with big screen TVs and waitress service. NFL divisional playoffs. 2 sat nite games and 2 Sunday games. They place will be jammed. Final four? Jammed. Look how popular fantasy football is. The borgata even in the recession made money and they make more than all the others combined!!! That may change with the new ones. The hard rock will kill it w the younger crowd with their concert lineup. Carrie Underwood on day one!!! Blake Shelton. That place will be hopping all summer long.

          Reply

  4. Posted by MJ on May 22, 2018 at 7:26 am

    NJ2AZ….please don’t let your state turn blue….we have already sold our big tax house in NJ and are thinking about our next move. Kind of tired of the awful humidity along the east coast even worse in southern states.

    I agree with your summary….there are lots of nice places to live for a lot less money although everywhere has its pros and cons, we can all choose to live where we want and enjoy the fruits of our hard work through the years

    Reply

    • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 8:29 am

      I love the Adirondacks and VT/NH. My wife hates the cold. Soooo….we gotta compromise there. I also hate the humidity and could never live in the southeast in summer. Who knows? Lot will depend on my kids. I would rather not be a grandpa who sees my grandkids once or twice a year and only when I have to get in a plane. I imagine we will be setting up shop near them. Lol.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on May 22, 2018 at 2:55 pm

        Quoting …………. “I imagine we will be setting up shop near them”

        Smartest move you’ll ever make.

        Reply

      • Posted by NJ2AZ on May 22, 2018 at 4:57 pm

        the Phoenix summers are brutal, but i’ll take extreme heat over stupid temperatures like ‘4’ any day of the week.

        anyways Flagstaff is about a 2 hour drive and at 8000 ft, i can get mild summers or full on winters if I desire.

        Reply

        • Posted by El gaupo on May 22, 2018 at 6:17 pm

          Very true. Bro in law lived in Phoenix (moved to Texas) for years. Took wife and kids out twice. Both times we went up to the canyon. Loved it!!!! Highly recommend to those on this blog who haven’t been…..

          Reply

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