Evading the NJ Pension Issue

Another New Jersey gubernatorial debate (this one for Democrats only) with the pension issue brought up and evaded.


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And an audience question to evade:
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30 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Anonymous on May 11, 2017 at 10:47 pm

    Pretty sickening ……………. All other of them pandering for the Union-member block vote & support, and all but Murphy also needing the Union money to support their campaigns.

    Get me a pail …. I need to puke !

    Reply

    • Posted by dentss dunnigan on May 12, 2017 at 4:26 am

      We all know the game plan here …it’s called pass the hot potato ,when the the pensions are down to the last nickel it will be time the Corzinesque “it’s time for difficult choices” which means whoever is unfortunite enough to still be living in the state to fleeced seven ways from hell .Murphy sells the millennials don’t trust the politicians so they are moving out or not moving back …Millennials aren’t stupid enough to be caught holding that “hot” potato called “it was promised to us” so they refuse to come back until they see a real solution to the mess our politicians have created .

      Reply

  2. Posted by skip3house on May 12, 2017 at 7:42 am

    It is not the politicians
    With their compromise and ploys,
    Who won for us the freedom
    That our country now enjoys.

    Reply

  3. Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 9:03 am

    Seriously, employee benefits include pensions, past administrations and legislators kicked the can, used the employer contributions to plug budget holes, the bill is now due, Treasurers solution, use part of lottery profits, or when monies in pension trust are depleted pay pensions from the general fund of the budget. The public employees always paid and pay their contracted share. Private sector unions lose their benefit reduction suits because their administrative cost salaries, pension contributions, health benefits are excessive, with no plans to reduce or reform.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 9:19 am

      Quoting …..

      “The public employees always paid and pay their contracted share.”

      Indeed they did, but just how much and how “fair” was their “contracted share” ?

      That “contracted share” is RARELY more than 10% to 20% of the total cost of an undeniably grossly excessive pension (by any and every metric when compared to what similarly situated …. in pay, service, and age at retirement ….. Private Sector workers get in retirement benefits from their employers), with the 80 to 90% remainder the responsibility of the Taxpayers who get MULTIPLES less in pensions and typically ZERO employer subsidize retiree healthcare benefits.

      Sorry buddy, but if YOU (or a family member) weren’t riding this gravy train, you would feel differently.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 12:39 pm

        Excuse you, they pay and paid the contracted legal amount, that covers fair.You chose to work in workplaces where benefits are determined by representative of owners or shareholders, you got what they gave, your anger is misplaced, the blame rest with you, choices buddy.

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 1:19 pm

          No, I and the 85% of all workers who work in the Private Sector receive “Market Rate” compensation (the combination of pay and benefits) determined in a FREE MARKET where employers freely compete for talent in a market unencumbered by the collusion (between your Unions and our Elected Officials) which grossly increases compensation over that which is necessary, just, fair to taxpayer, and affordable.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 3:23 pm

            Mindless dribble.

          • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 6:27 pm

            Anonymous on (May 12, 2017 at 3:23 pm),

            What makes you think Public Sector workers are so “special” that they deserve cash wages comparable (for all workers taken together) to their Private Sector counterparts, but pensions that are routinely MULTIPLES greater in value upon retirement ….. and free or heavily subsidized PLATINUM+ retiree healthcare benefits that few in the Private Sector get any longer?

            Talk about … Mindless dribble. !

          • Posted by S Moderation Douglas on May 12, 2017 at 8:03 pm

            “cash wages comparable (for all workers taken together) to their Private Sector counterparts,…”

            Now that is drivel.

        • Posted by S Moderation Douglas on May 12, 2017 at 9:58 pm

          Still not clear on the concept. Frayda Levin…
          “Most still talk of meeting the commitments to government workers as if taxpayers won’t mind working into their 70s while public employees retire decades earlier…”
          Yes, it is true, many safety workers can retire younger. Do any New Jersey cities/counties have “twenty and out” with half pay like New York state? (Or the military?)
          On average, “taxpayers”, whether public or private, do not work into their seventies, and “decades earlier” is histrionic propaganda.
          Frayda Levin…
          “And while other public employees must work until age 62, they still retire earlier and get more than do most New Jersey taxpayers.”
          On average, retirement age is about the same for public and private workers. Private workers could “get more” …if… they worked for lower average wages, and …if… they had up to 10% (mandatory) withheld from their current wages.
          If a worker deliberately chooses a private sector job because the wages are higher, and contributes …nothing… to an IRA or 401(k), even when it is available, his complaints about public pensions are pointless.
          And, for whatever reason, Andrew Biggs is still claiming that private sector workers ain’t doing that bad after all…
          https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbiggs/2016/09/20/how-many-americans-are-saving-for-retirement-how-many-should-be/#22baace67050
          Public sector pensions; as it was in the beginning, and now, and always, and to the ages of ages, shall be known as “deferred compensation”. And it is a good thing.

          Reply

    • Posted by mightyright on May 12, 2017 at 3:54 pm

      The state employee unions participated in a votes for benefits scheme that was used mostly by democrat politicians. The pol got a block vote from the unions and then he/she would advocate for increased benefits for the unions. This went on for decades. Fast forward to today where the pensions have no where nearly enough money to pay all the promised benefits. The union workers want the taxpayers to pick up the tab for their “promised” cadillac benefits. The majority of the taxpayers are saying that is a big “No Go.” The bottom line, is that 10 -20 years ago we had options, now people, especially the wealthy are moving to lower tax states because of the impending bankruptcy of NJ. It is not if it is going to happen only when. There is going to be pain all around when the s#it hits the fan.

      Reply

      • Posted by Now Retired Pat on May 12, 2017 at 5:00 pm

        I disagree. The money was available to make the pension payments as promised, but it was DIVERTED to prop up special interest legislation. Perhaps “affordable housing grants” were not really affordable; perhaps “community block grants” were far too generous and not affordable; perhaps subsidies to urban districts were fare to excessive. The list goes on and on. Bottom line: instead of following through on your promises to match, gov’t used the “match money” for other political folly to garner votes. Oh, and by the way, every dollar the gov’t did not “match” benefited YOU, the private sector worker. (roads, bridges, welfare..etc..)

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 6:31 pm

          LOL …………

          What was ……… “far too generous and not affordable” …………… was your promised pension & benefits.

          Reply

          • Posted by Now Retired Pat on May 12, 2017 at 8:08 pm

            “you” elected your legislators to do your bidding and you will. ‘you” (the public) elected them on their promise to abide by their pledges. They lied to you. They traded in their (your) promises for fairy dust. Now you (loyal ass lickers) must pay the price. Higher taxes in NJ will run the rich out? HA HA! They will still stay because 50% profit is still better than 40% profit.

            Rich assholes like yourself make me angry. How much money do you really want or need? How many gold bars do you need to amass before you fell comfortable? When is enough, enough? How much money do you really need to survive? Or, how much money do you need to keep to yourself so that so many other die of starvation? Oh, yeah.. it’s real.. Thousands of people are dying of starvation while you throw away the leftover filet.

          • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 9:39 pm

            Pat,

            No, what WILL make you angry is when step #1 hits …… a material reduction in your now Platinum+ retiree healthcare benefits, along with a big jump in premiums.

            Me rich? No, but I can spot greed and arrogance a mile away….. and you STINK.

  4. Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 9:14 am

    Oh, by the way, the Treasurer recently stated the profits from the NJ Lottery were around 900+ million, I recall payments to the pension fund private investment firms were reported to be in the same neighborhood. Does this make sense to any reasonably intelligent person?

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 9:21 am

      So, lower the investment fees ….. along with lowering the worker’s pension & benefits.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 12:41 pm

        Sorry, contracts determine benefits and payout schemes for NJ public employees. Contracts must be respected.

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 1:04 pm

          Not when those “contracts” were negotiated in collusion between your Unions and Elected Officials BOUGHT with BRIBES disguised as campaign contribution and election support…….. and with NOBODY at that negotiating table rightfully looking out for the Taxpayers’ best interests.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 3:25 pm

            Seriously, there is no collusion and you can’t provide proof of collusion. It is what was agreed.

          • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 3:57 pm

            No, I can’t “prove” that the Union campaign contributions and election support given to our Elected Officials is a quid-pro-quo for supporting the Union agenda (more pay, greater pensions, and better benefits) …. aka “collusion”.

            It’s just that I’m not BLIND, and have a brain.

          • Posted by dentss dunnigan on May 12, 2017 at 4:25 pm

            Actually when you have a siting president of the senate accusing the unions of bribery …I would say that pretty good evidence of collusion …http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20160804_Sweeney_accuses_N_J__teachers__union_of_extortion.html

          • Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2017 at 5:30 pm

            I wonder if that means the Senate Prez is admitting to complicity ?

          • Posted by S Moderation Douglas on May 12, 2017 at 9:28 pm

            1) “The broadest classification of political donors separates them into business, labor, or ideological interests. Whatever slice you look at, business interests dominate, with an overall advantage over organized labor of about 15-to-1.”

            2) State and local workers are fewer than 15% of the state, and they do not vote as a bloc.

            3) Collusion is secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others. Nothing secret here, nothing illegal.

            4) You have an opinion, nothing more.

          • Posted by Garden State Woes on May 12, 2017 at 10:57 pm

            In NJ it’s labor that outspends business groups. The NJEA alone sometimes outspends the next largest lobby by 2:1.

            Plus the NJEA funds the largest left wing think tanks in NJ, the Education Law Center and New Jersey Policy Perspective. They fund many Latino and African-American groups too.

            Funding those groups gives the NJEA a media reach that New Jersey’s business groups don’t have.

            This is just an example of the NJEA’s spending advantage.

            For decades, the public sector unions were able to choose their own boss. They’ve done so and made NJ, once the country’s richest state, one of its most bankrupt.

            http://nypost.com/2016/11/24/how-teachers-unions-drive-jerseys-pension-crisis/

            http://www.publicsectorinc.org/2013/11/nj-teachers-everyone-else-on-november-elections/

          • Posted by Anonymous on May 13, 2017 at 8:25 am

            Racist dribble, most NJEA employees are white women. The bulk of NJEA voters are whitefolks. Affordable housing and healthcare in NJ are necessary for many citizens based on income.

          • Posted by Anonymous on May 13, 2017 at 6:22 pm

            Quoting …

            “Affordable housing and healthcare in NJ are necessary for many citizens based on income.”

            Exactly, which is why ALL of NJ’s Public Sector DB Pension need to be frozen for the future service of all CURRENT workers, with the money that WOULD have been needed to fund ADDITIONAL unnecessary and excessive pension accruals can instead go for …..Affordable housing and healthcare, and the poor, the sick, and the elderly.

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