Christie’s Specious Posturings on Pensions and Health Benefits

When you speak to a group of people who are there to be entertained and are disinclined (or incapable) of questioning you have some latitude as to how much you can ‘exaggerate’ before someone pipes up with:

“Who do you think I am? An idiot?”

When it comes to pension and benefits reform in New Jersey before an audience of state legislators and the media, that point never came yesterday.


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Aside from parading an ignorance of the time value of money in an argument used previously with teachers and different numbers ($195,000 in with $2.6 million out) the issues with this assertion:

  • Employee contributions are irrelevant. It all comes form taxpayers anyway. Would it make any difference if employees did pay $2.4 million over their working lifetimes into the systems which they would get from higher negotiated salaries?
  • An average government employee might also get $3 million in salary over 30 years with no contributions from them for that salary.  Is that too a scandal?

The point is that if we accept $2.4 million as what benefits cost then that should be what is funded for but because of a perverted funding system for pensions (and no funding for OPEBs) the money is not being set aside.  This does not make the promised benefits any less or more expensive. It only makes the likelihood of default (through whatever specious reasoning) inevitable.

Then we come to the $250 million in savings in health benefit costs in this budget which Christie attempted to sell to public employees as a win for them too:
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What Christie conveniently ignores is that the savings in health benefit costs is surely going to come from higher deductibles and larger co-payments that the employees will need to pick up and which the NJ Pension Study Commission mentioned in their latest report (albeit as footnote 51):
employee cost
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For those interested in the full video of Christie on pensions in this budget address, though you have heard it all before, here it is:
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Get well soon, Jack.

61 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by skip3house on February 17, 2016 at 12:23 pm

    ‘OPEBs’,….etc..as mentioned earlier, the blog must spell out in English these boring meanings once in every blog to better help new followers, please? (ARC, DC, DB,….

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 1:24 pm

      Good idea, maybe a home page posting or embedded link with acronym details and definitions.

      Reply

    • Posted by The Resident Nutcase on February 17, 2016 at 1:40 pm

      Other post-employment benefits (OPEB) refers to the benefits, other than pensions, that a state or local government employee receives as part of his or her package of retirement benefits.

      The ARC annual required contribution,is the employer’s periodic required contribution to a defined benefit OPEB plan. The ARC is the sum of two parts: (1) the normal cost, which is the cost for OPEB benefits attributable to the current year of service, and (2) an amortization payment, which is a catch-up payment for past service costs to fund the Unfunded Actuarial Accrued Liability (UAAL) over the next 30 years.

      DB- defined benefit plan identifies the specific benefit that will be payable to you at retirement. Your basic retirement benefit is usually based on a formula that takes into account factors like the number of years a participant works for the employer (years of service) and the participant’s salary.

      DC- A defined contribution plan specifies how much money will go into a retirement plan today. The amount typically is either a percentage of an employee’s salary or a specific dollar amount.

      Reply

  2. Posted by dentss dunnigan on February 17, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    I thought the speech was OK He made his point about the legislature putting pensions on the ballot in the form of a constitutional amendment ,any how it be too destructive to other necessities that are funded through taxes schools ,police ,fire ,hospitals and safety net programs for the poor .without a dedicated tax democrats are fighting a losing battle with this issue and when it goes down in flames they have lost any bargening power in the future ,plus it will embolden legislators to fight the unions .Most likely pensions will be nibbled at around the edges like they have been doing No COLA paying a more for their insurance and employees contributing more to their pension as well.On the taxpayer side some sort of dedicated tax need to found that should go to the funding this monster ,the longer it’s put off the harder it will be to so .

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 5:08 pm

      Totally on point! Hopefully they can negotiate some meaningful Commission type reforms with a dedicated revenue for future funding now. It will be less painful for all concerned in the long run.

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 17, 2016 at 5:40 pm

      Quoting … “On the taxpayer side some sort of dedicated tax need to found that should go to the funding this monster, the longer it’s put off the harder it will be to so .”

      No …………

      No increase in taxes until future service pension accruals (for all CURRENT workers) are reduced to a level no greater than what comparable Private Sector workers typically get from their employers …. today, usually no more than 3%-of-pay into a 401K (DC) Plan plus their employer’s 6.2%-of-pay SS contribution on their behalf.

      And no greater taxpayer subsidies toward Public Sector retiree healthcare than what Private Sector retirees get in such subsidies from their former employers ….. which today, is most often NOTHING.

      Public Sector workers are NOT “special” and deserving of a better deal on the TAXPAYERS’ dime .

      Reply

  3. Posted by truthnolie on February 17, 2016 at 1:27 pm

    “I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise”

    (Fight Club)

    Reply

  4. Posted by Pauline Walnuts on February 17, 2016 at 2:42 pm

    To hear both sides applaud themselves for the “good work” they have done so far is galling. State aid? We aid the state. They let pennies on the dollar trickle back to cities. None of it makes it back to most towns. We rank 50th in percentage of state employer contributions/funding level. We are barely making our minimum monthly balance. Higher copays are not going to make a dent. They saved the system in 2011. They will say it again soon as they kick the can into a black hole. Pathetic. God help the local taxpayer if they successfully unload the responsibility of the teachers retirements on us.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 5:03 pm

      I guess you could say the 2011 reforms kicked the lid off the can. Now the can is emptying it’s contents as it keeps rolling down the road. Question is when does it run out of road and go off the cliff?

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 17, 2016 at 5:47 pm

      Quoting Pauline Walnuts ….

      “God help the local taxpayer if they successfully unload the responsibility of the teachers retirements on us.”

      AND their retiree healthcare.

      THAT indeed should be LOCAL Taxpayer’s greater concern. Any “deal” that contemplates the LOCALS taking on such liabilities BECAUSE OF offsetting healthcare subsidy reductions, MUST MUST MUST include ironclad guarantees that the healthcare saving will indeed be 100% offsetting in the year of transition and in every year thereafter ….. and any shortfall IMMEDIATELY reverts back to the State as THEIR legal financial obligation.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 5:57 pm

        Sounds like your skeptical of the Commission’s savings representation, not that this Gov would even consider throwing the Locals under the bus with the rest of his slaughter!

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on February 17, 2016 at 7:32 pm

          (a) Christie would throw his mother …… under the bus if it benefited him. Not relevant though …. his focus on reducing Public Sector pensions & benefits is necessary, fair, appropriate, and desperately needed

          (b) Yes, I’m skeptical of REAL offsetting savings via reduction in Local Taxpayer subsidies toward Local Healthcare costs

          (b) Even IF (a BIG if) there is offsetting savings in the year of transition, I would expect the insatiably greedy LOCAL Union/workers to pound their local elected officials to start ratcheting them right back up ASAP ……. and that they will do so (in trade for more Union campaign contributions) ….. and the “State” will the (rightfully) tell the Locals doing so …”tough luck, you should not have raised them back up”….. and the Local Taxpayers will wind up getting screwed again

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 7:39 pm

            Don’t you think voters at the local level would have more direct and immediate control over booting those elected officials out of office and electing someone else.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 17, 2016 at 7:50 pm

            Anon, Only if residents are willing the put up with the wrath of their Local Public Sector workers by publicly calling out their Elected Officials for self-interested decisions and unjustified support of the Local Unions (in the form of necessarily rich pay, pensions, and benefits).

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 8:04 pm

            Not sure I follow your logic given privates outnumber publics.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 17, 2016 at 8:25 pm

            Yes, Local Privates “outnumber” Public Sector workers between 5 and 10 to 1, but perhaps only 4 to 1 with all of the Public Sector workers family members counted as Publics. And while maybe 15% to 40% of Private vote regularly, on issues impacting their compensation (which always includes WHO is actually elected) 75-90%% of Publics regularly vote.

            And try standing up at a Local Council meeting and suggesting that Police receive no raises because they are already overpaid, or that we lower the huge menu of taxpayer paid-for perks. Or try suggesting that new workers get 401K-style DC Plans and not DB pensions, or that new workers should not get any retiree healthcare benefits, or (heavens) that subsidies to retiree healthcare for CURRENT workers will now max out at say 50% of premiums.

            You’d better have a strong stomach to take on this greedy, self-interested, establishment. And I suggest several cameras to document the sure-to-come wrath of those potentially impacted.

            —————-

            And driving home from that Council meeting, you may get a speeding ticket for going 2 miles over the speed limit …… just to “teach you a lesson”, and remind to “not make waves” or “shake the boat”.

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 8:40 pm

            Roger that, over and out!

  5. Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 4:47 pm

    John the numbers, as I’m sure you know, don’t add up – in a lot of ways.
    For example, post reform, if employee single additional cost is $794.40 and employee savings is $5,754.53 – where is the difference (~$4,960.13) coming from? One possibility is the employee additional cost is based on a unreasonably low usage and copays/out-of-pocket costs? Your thoughts and insights, as always, are appreciated.

    Reply

    • Actually that part of the footnote is the supposed Employer cost savings but the numbers are bogus in any case, evidenced by the fact that no actuary wanted to be associated with them.

      Reply

  6. Posted by Tough Love on February 17, 2016 at 7:20 pm

    Gotta Love Jack Dean’s sense of humor….
    ——————————————————-

    “Due to circumstances beyond our control, PensionTsunami.com will be offline until at least next Monday.

    I’m fairly certain that the public pension crisis won’t end before then.

    – Jack Dean, Editor & Publisher “

    Reply

  7. Posted by Anonymous on February 17, 2016 at 8:52 pm

    I was struck when CC “thanked” the people of NJ for allowing him the opportunity to run for President. I assure you he did not get my approval, furthermore, I believe he owes the NJ Treasury money, salary, travel, security pay etc. etc. The is not another State employee that get 200+ paid personal leave and vacation time. He lied again but who under the dome will call him to task?

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 17, 2016 at 9:04 pm

      “allowing him ” ? That’s amusing, suggesting that had they objected, he would not have pursued it while still collecting a paycheck as NJ’s Governor (and wasting a few Million $ on taxpayer paid-for security details).

      NJ should pass a law that you will not be paid while pursuing endeavors (such as running for the President of the USA) NOT directly associated with your job responsibilities.

      Reply

      • Posted by dentss dunnigan on February 18, 2016 at 10:15 am

        Corzine foresaw all this that’s why we now have a Lt Governor ..otherwise Sweeney would have taken over she he was gone …Do you think CC would have still ran then ?

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on February 18, 2016 at 1:21 pm

          Yes. BTW, you’re right about Corzine saw this coming (P&B debacle coming to a head) that’s why he campaigned so unenthusiastically.

          Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 18, 2016 at 1:56 pm

      Really, come on now? This guy has been a beacon of light during NJ’s darkest hour guiding us into the rocks while he slithers off to his next cushy job. For the good of NJ my a**, more like his own greedy self interested purpose!

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 18, 2016 at 3:05 pm

      It seems ……. as with Compensation studies …… there are studies with differing conclusions.

      Atlas Van Lines annually complies State-to-State Migration statistic form ACTUAL moves ….. so it would be hard to argue that they are not indeed FACT-based.

      Here is their most recent study for the year 2015:

      http://www.atlasvanlines.com/migration-patterns/

      This Study table Shows MUCH higher OUT-Migration in NJ ……….

      Year Inbound Outbound

      2015 1,548 2,164
      2014 1,437 1,972
      2013 1,487 1,884
      2011 1,435 1,987
      2010 1,621 2,215
      2009 1,480 2,356
      2008 1,834 2,661
      2007 2,113 3,022
      2006 2,198 3,145

      Reply

  8. Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 18, 2016 at 5:46 pm

    Shirley you jest.

    That is a van line business. It caters only to limited segments of the population, and only a fraction of that cohort. Hardly a representative sample.

    The US Census Bureau has more specific data.

    This “data” is ripe for smoothing.

    Reply

  9. Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 18, 2016 at 8:06 pm

    You still crackin’ me up, Love.

    “It seems ……. as with Compensation studies …… there are studies with differing conclusions.”

    Atlas Van Lines is not a “study”. It Counts how many households they moved. It doesn’t specify if a household is one person or one dozen. It doesn’t count how many were moved in or out by United, Mayflower, or Noth American Van Lines (or U-Haul).

    The American Community Survey is conducted by the US Census Bureau.

    https://www.census.gov/hhes/migration/data/acs/state-to-state.html

    It counts how many individuals actually moved state to state, including people living in group quarters (e.g. adult correctional facilities, nursing facilities, college/university student housing, and military quarters). Who probably did not use Atlas Van Lines.

    In their methodology section, they will give you their margin of error.

    Of course, you may prefer to stick with your own anecdotal evidence and preconceived opinions, that is your prerogative.

    You can even repeat this ….with a straight face?:

    “……it’s most often a lonely (but necessary) road I travel.

    By training and work history I am quite knowledgeable on this subject…”

    (Tough Love, calpensions 2013)

    After all these years; still crackin’ me up.
    _______________________________________________
    US Census Bureau = smooth

    Atlas Van Lines = not smooth

    Reply

  10. Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 18, 2016 at 9:25 pm

    Moderation has never worked on a train of any kind, nor even ridden a train for at least thirty years. Just another Tough Love ass-.umption.

    Not smooth.

    Give us some Atlas Van Lines math. It’s as valid as anything else you make up.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 18, 2016 at 9:36 pm

      Ok …not “worked on” or “ridden” ….carefully chosen words I’m sure.

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 18, 2016 at 9:43 pm

      Here’s some VERY accurate math …..

      Given the SAME age, service years, and pay at retirement, the value at retirement of Public Sector pensions is ROUTINELY 3-5 times greater than that of comparable Private Sector workers …. with that 3 to 5 times rising to 4 to 6 times for Safety workers (with the MOST generous, costly, and egregious pensions).

      THAT and very generously subsidized retiree healthcare benefits …. that VERY few in the Private Sector get from their employers today ….. is the ROOT CAUSE of the financial mess many States and Cities are in today.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on February 18, 2016 at 10:23 pm

        A close relative, retired from a large publically traded energy company receives totally free health care with prescription coverage. It’s a traditional major medical plan that pays for 2 years of skilled nursing facility with a 90 day reassessment. All of their prescription copays are $1! Certainly not the norm and definetly not the only valid example of privates receiving much greater than publics. The company has ceased to continue this coverage but grandfathered in all retirees.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on February 18, 2016 at 11:49 pm

          I’ll be blunt, and yes, it’s my OPINION …………

          true ONLY if one of the rare special deals cut for a CEO (and perhaps a few just one level down). Otherwise, it’s Bogus.

          Reply

      • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 19, 2016 at 2:53 am

        “THAT and very generously subsidized retiree healthcare benefits …. that VERY few in the Private Sector get from their employers today …..”

        Define “very few”.

        You be the judge:

        http://kff.org/report-section/retiree-health-benefits-at-the-crossroads-overview-of-health-benefits-for-pre-65-and-medicare-eligible-retirees/

        “Figure 3: Forty-five percent of all retirees ages 55 to 64 have retiree health coverage, 2012”

        Clearly, a higher percentage of public employees have retiree healthcare, but maybe not enough for an all caps “VERY”.

        If I told you once, I told you ten million times; don’t exaggerate!!!

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on February 19, 2016 at 6:02 am

          What would be interesting would be to split that group (the 45% that gets retiree healthcare insurance) into Public and Private Sector retirees,

          Without doubt it’s VERY COMMON* in the Public Sector and VERY UNCOMMON* in the private Sector.

          (* is that exaggerating ?)

          Just another of the MANY MANY ways Taxpayers are betrayed by their elected Officials who grant generous benefits to PUBLIC Sector workers and have PRIVATE Sector workers (who rarely get the same benefits) pay for them.

          Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 18, 2016 at 10:01 pm

      Well lo and behold, perhaps I mistook your words from an earlier comment (or perhaps the following is from only one of several jobs you had);

      You made the following comment here:

      https://burypensions.wordpress.com/2015/06/18/two-lessons-from-the-central-states-pension-plan-collapse/

      “I have had a six man crew with four trucks work a total of three hours closing lanes for me to do a five minute emergency repair. ”

      my bad ….. looks like it may not be trains, but fixing CA’s roads.

      ——————

      Nothing wrong with honest, hard work ….. but get off the high-horse.

      Reply

      • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 19, 2016 at 2:55 am

        LOL!!!

        Sorry, no train, no horse either.

        You’re zero for two.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on February 19, 2016 at 3:09 am

          Yup, we resolved that….. you worked repairing California’s roads.

          Make you a deal ……..

          You refrain from commenting on pension/financial matters for which you have little education or knowledge, and when my driveway needs repair, I’ll defer to your expertise.

          Reply

          • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 19, 2016 at 4:23 am

            Zero for three.

            The “trained” expert is still making ass-umptions.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 19, 2016 at 4:58 am

            SMD, repeating part of my above comment …
            ———————————————
            You made the following comment here:

            https://burypensions.wordpress.com/2015/06/18/two-lessons-from-the-central-states-pension-plan-collapse/

            “I have had a six man crew with four trucks work a total of three hours closing lanes for me to do a five minute emergency repair. ”

            my bad ….. looks like it may not be trains, but fixing CA’s roads.

          • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 19, 2016 at 6:21 am

            “Twenty questions” is fun, but getting old. Picture the man in the bucket, but taller and much better looking. That would be me.

            When this work is done at the intersection of two major routes, it requires full Federal Highway Administration compliant lane closures in at least three directions. Ergo six men, four trucks, hundreds of cones, dozens of signs, prior notice to area dispatcher, and monitored by at least one Highway Patrol officer.

            The “emergency repair” in this case was just a red light burned out. Mandated repair as soon as practical. Jen you wine emergency, when the signal head is hanging by the wire, with rain and 40 mph wind, no time to call in the troups. If lucky, I have the Highway Patrol who called it in and a box full of flares. Cut and run, and schedule the permanent repair with proper work zone protection for tomorrow.

          • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 19, 2016 at 6:30 am

            It did require a lot of training, though. Some times I was the trainee, sometimes the trainer. Still, never worked on a train.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 19, 2016 at 3:07 pm

            Oh my SMD……..

            It took (in your words) …… ““I have had a six man crew with four trucks work a total of three hours closing lanes for me to do a five minute emergency repair. ”

            and

            (in your words) …. “The “emergency repair” in this case was just a red light burned out. ”

            WOW … no wonder why CA is heading for the Sh**pile. Sounds just like NJ, 2 working and 4 supervising.

            ———————————————

          • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 19, 2016 at 5:27 pm

            Oh my TL……

            1) TL: Often in error, never in doubt.

            2) Prompt repairs for certain malfunctions are legally mandated and common sense to prevent injury or property damage (and the ensuing lawsuits.)

            3) Work zone traffic control is legally mandated in ALL states (Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices)

            4) Four people were not supervising. Setting up signs and cones is labor intensive and dangerous work. Once the closures are in place, they must be monitored and the maintenance crew assists in flagging and directing traffic. The trucks are used as barrier vehicles as a last line of defense from drivers who don’t comprehend signs and cones.

            5) There was one other worker I never mentioned. Since equipment failures are subject to Murphy’s Law, I convinced my supervisor to send another electrician with another aerial lift in case my truck malfunctioned. Redundancy, so the time spent by the closure crew wouldn’t be wasted or extended.

            6) The “emergency” was a five minute job, but, back in the day, signals required (by law) annual maintenance (cleaning, relamping, and inspection/repair as needed.) Since the due date was in about three months, I parked where I could do the maintenance on all three heads at once, to fully utilize the closures. About fifty minutes total time in the air.

            7) This was an expensive operation, no doubt. Would have cost twice as much if done by a private contractor. Everyone involved was professional and efficient. Next morning, I dropped by the maintenance yard with a dozen donuts. You may have NO IDEA how it feels to literally trust your life to your co-workers.

            8) Passing traffic (some, not all) were, as usual, verbally abusive and uncooperative (hint: NO left turn means NO left turn) It is for your own safety, as well as mine. “Why can’t you do this at night, when there’s no traffic?” Because it costs more, it is more unsafe (for me AND for you) due to impaired visibility and faster traffic. This ain’t our first rodeo. There was easily fifty years combined experience in that crew who knew what to do and what not to do.

            9) WOW… another sidewalk superintendent spouting cheap shots on something he knows nothing about. And, speak for yourself. CA is not headed for the Sh**pile.

            10) Say goodnight, Gracie.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 19, 2016 at 7:18 pm

            Oh please, 6 men, 4 trucks, and 3 hours to SIMPLY replace a traffic light bulb.

            Earth to SMD, if there EXISTS a traffic light , NONE of the intersecting roads are major highways……. it’s not “rocket science”

            So what did it cost the Taxpayers to change this light bulb $3,000 in salaries, benefits, and ridiculous use of FOUR trucks?

            Quoting …..

            “Would have cost twice as much if done by a private contractor. ”

            Bullsh**. You should all be OUTSOURCED.

          • 90% of the public sector at the state and local level could be outsourced resulting in major cost savings, particularly in BS pension and retiree medical care costs. Half of these jobs are “program” jobs where the state or municipality creates some sort of BS “need” so they can hire the bozos who can’t compete in the private sector.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 19, 2016 at 9:21 pm

            PSDrone, Exactly, and anyone who believe that the VAST MAJORITY of Public Sector workers cannot be outsourced should study the HUGE success of Sandy Springs Georgia, a middle/upper-middle class City of 94,000 ….. with only 7 actual “employees” plus Police employees, all of whom get 401K-style DC retirement Plans and NOT the Taxpayer-choking DB Plans….

            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/business/a-georgia-town-takes-the-peoples-business-private.html?_r=1
            ——————————–

            The purported “need” for DB-pensioned “employees” is a figment of the imagination of the insatiably greedy workers now filling these roles …… and wanting the Taxpayer-funded pension/benefit gravy-train to continue.

          • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 19, 2016 at 10:57 pm

            It’s called a parkway. Three through lanes plus a left turn on each major approach. Two through lanes plus left turns on each leg of the Cross Street. Speed limit 65 in all directions. Contractors are required to use all the same traffic controls, and their employees make much more than state workers.
            If you persist in error, you’re better of screwing up your spreadsheets than endangering yourself and others playing in traffic. No place for amateurs.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 19, 2016 at 11:14 pm

            SMD,

            It’s nice to be confident, but given you were ………. CHANGING A BURNT OUT LIGHT BULB …….. you WAY overestimate your value.

          • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 20, 2016 at 1:33 am

            Caltrans electrician Manuel Leon, 59, was killed by a passing vehicle July 9, 1998, as he stepped from his truck to repair a traffic signal west of Hollister in San Benito County.

            Jaime Obeso – District 11 Maintenance Leadworker was killed by a hit and run driver who entered a lane closure on Interstate 8 near the Sunbeam Rest Area in Imperial County June 7, 2011.

            Donald Mark Lichliter Caltrans Tree Maintenance Leadworker (District 10) was struck and killed on July 23, 2009 by a motorist as he was working next to his vehicle.

            Djuan Bush – Caltrans Highway Maintenance worker was working on a guardrail replacement project on I-580 in the Bay Area. He died from injuries sustained when an errant driver crashed into a boom truck, then spun out and hit Djuan on September 25, 2007.

            We try to take work zone protection seriously, even if we’re just changing a light bulb.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 20, 2016 at 1:45 am

            SMD, Ok, justifies Hazardous-worker pay ………. let’s RAISE road worker pensions to those of Police….yippy free money for all …. no problema !

          • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 20, 2016 at 4:05 pm

            It would appear that you are inferring that if a man is changing a light bulb, that is the limit of his duties and abilities. Like if all you ever see a policeman do is writing tickets, that is all he is capable of or required to do. That might go a long way toward explaining your bias against the police.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 20, 2016 at 4:57 pm

            SMD,

            I have no “bias” against Police (or any other Public Sector worker).

            You are the master of twisting and “smoothing” ….. knowing that any “bias” I may have narrowly addresses the single issue of unnecessarily, unfairly (for Taxpayers) and unaffordably overcompensating Public Sector workers.

            P.S………. Our back-and-forth about your duties as a retired CA road-repair-worker are over, as it is feeding your desire to keep this Blog’s comments focused ….as they need to be ………. on the need for REAL pension reform, which means material pension & benefit level reductions for the FUTURE service of all CURRENT workers. And if financial circumstances so necessitate, for the PAST service accruals of Actives and Retirees as well.

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