Christie Quits

A bunch of NJ operatives crawled out of the shadows to sound off on NH Prez Politics last Friday and, after putting their predictions into a spreadsheet, it’s amazing how wrong practically all them got it on the Republican side.  For example, 14 of the 17 had Marco Rubio coming in either first or second with Donald Scarcini getting it particularly wrong:

Marco Rubio narrowly wins the primary or comes in second because momentum is in his favor after Iowa and Republicans were just waiting to see who was going to break from the pack to replace Trump and Cruz with a candidate who could actually beat Hillary Clinton. Unfortunately, Chris Christie does not beat Bush and does not show as strong as he should in a state where he spent a lot of time.  He ends his campaign with dignity and comes home to NJ as a hero and a roll model for others who have the courage to think big.

Mr. Scarcini did get one thing right (just reported) but….
I believe Governor Christie comes home a traitor.  His crimes:

  1. Ignoring the real issue of entitlement reform that he kicked off his campaign with but said no more about
  2. Costing NJ taxpayers more money in repayments necessary to his campaign donors
  3. Mocking New Jerseyans for laughs from Iowans and New Hampshirites
  4. Stasis on all issues of importance including pension reform

 

78 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Tough Love on February 10, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    Quoting your traitor crime #1………….

    “Ignoring the real issue of entitlement reform that he kicked off his campaign with but said no more about”

    Yes, and now that it looks like his Presidential bid is ending, that “entitlement reform” should START at home in NJ with Gov. Christie strongly advocating for the hard FREEZE to ALL of NJ’s Public Sector DB Plans for all CURRENT workers (as well as a very material reductions in the “Platinum+” healthcare benefits) ….. as recommended by the NJ Pension Commission.

    His biggest failure would be to give up and let Sweeney re-start the cycle of give-aways to the ALWAYS insatiably greed Public Sector Unions/workers.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 10, 2016 at 4:33 pm

      TL voted for the bubble boy, she fell hook line and sinker for his lies. She voted for him twice. Don’t let her fool you. She voted for 8 wasted years in which the probability of her taxes going up quadrupled.

      Reply

    • Posted by The Resident Nutcase on February 10, 2016 at 4:49 pm

      Sorry TL…. Between his burning all his bridges in the state….. Nothing will happen on his watch. No deals. No reforms. His political clout is gone. And the next governor is not going to piss anyone off due to the need for votes. So, you’re wish for public empoyees to burn at the stake will have to wait a few more years. And hopefully by then “other” things will take priority.

      Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 10, 2016 at 5:03 pm

      Christie’s hires Scott Walker as chief advisor on how to run an effective presidential campaign – LOL!

      Reply

  2. Posted by truthnolie on February 10, 2016 at 2:54 pm

    Why am I thinking it’s like this at Christie’s campaign headquarters??? (BTW….is that at a All You Can Eat Buffet joint??) LMAO!:

    Reply

  3. Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 10, 2016 at 3:29 pm

    “a roll model ”

    Is that Freudian?

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 10, 2016 at 4:29 pm

      Guilty, copy & paste from JB’s previous post.

      Krystal Lite going home tonight (for good), concession speech at Krispy Kreme. Don’t stop me now I’m on a (jelly) roll.

      Add on: In all sincerity, it’s sad to see him come home – “Sonic Boom”!

      Reply

  4. Posted by Anonymous on February 10, 2016 at 4:34 pm

    He quit before the embarrassment of losing the primary in New Jersey became a reality.

    Reply

  5. Posted by dentss dunnigan on February 10, 2016 at 5:50 pm

    “It is better to have tried and failed, than not to have tried at all.”

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 10, 2016 at 6:22 pm

      Ah yes the losers fall back!

      Reply

    • Posted by truthnolie on February 10, 2016 at 6:41 pm

      Or…to paraphrase Homer Simpson :

      “It is better to have tried and failed, than not to have tried at all……so the lesson is…..never try”

      Wise words that Christie should have went by from a much smarter, much thinner cartoon version of himself…..hahaha.

      Reply

  6. Posted by Sean on February 10, 2016 at 10:22 pm

    Before the Super Bowl…

    After the Super Bowl…

    The Broncos (and every other team) put up with all the bs, week after week, listening to the sh*t talking, the dancing, and the clowning, as the Panthers celebrated one meaningless “victory” after another, mocking their opponents along the way. Meanwhile, the Denver Broncos quietly went about their business, building the best defense in the league. On game day, they did all their talking on the field. Well, not ALL their talking. My my, did the broncos have a field day starting Sunday evening. Anything to be learned here? Probably not. Oh well. Just remember: If you can dish it out, you had better be able to take it. The Super Bowl is coming…ready or not.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 10, 2016 at 10:40 pm

      Ah more Chicago Bull Sh*t from the IL man.

      Reply

      • Posted by Sean on February 10, 2016 at 11:32 pm

        That’s the funny thing about truth… it knows no boundaries

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 9:05 am

          That’s laughable, what does the truth have to do with most of the CRAP spewed on this blog!!!

          Reply

          • Posted by Sean on February 11, 2016 at 12:35 pm

            Well, at least that’s one thing you got right. You are absolutely correct. NOTHING spewed on this blog will do a single thing to effect the eventual outcome. All of the back and forth is like a bunch of people arguing over who will win the Super Bowl. Time will tell, and only time, will tell. All the chest thumping, high fiving, making fun of Chris Christie…blah blah blah… this is all peripheral chatter.

            The ONLY thing that matters is the funding levels.

            How much money is coming into the funds?

            How much money is going out of the funds?

            At the current rate of inflows versus outflows, how long will the funds survive?

            That, my friends, is ALL that matters. And time will reveal all.

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 3:28 pm

            Totally accurate, see you (figuratively speaking if course) at the polls this November and next. And If the results are anything like NJ’s Assembly election we’ll see the inflows (ie ARC) increasing. But as you accurately stated time will tell.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 11, 2016 at 3:54 pm

            Yes, Anon, the ARC’s ……….”increasing”……. but even if at on the Schedule your in-the-Union’s-pocket s***bag Sweeney has proposed, that schedule, being FAR below the FULL (properly calculated) ARCs, will ADD $15 to $20 Billion of under-funding over the next 5 years.

            Bottom line ….. NJ’s Public Sector pensions are doomed. They’re only “buying time” because admitting such unstoppable bad news is simply not something politicians (whose #1, #2, and #3 goal, is to get elected, and then re-elected) do.

  7. Gee JB you sound as obsessed with CC as Tom Moran from the Star Ledger (CC lives rent free in his head), and I get your frustration with regard to public pensions, but CC was never even going to place in a republican primary because he is RINO and an asshole so we get that.

    Aside from that, I have neighbors on either side of me collecting pensions higher than my yearly salary. Both of them will easily collect close to 2 million dollars before they drop dead. A teacher and a mechanic.

    Anyone in the private sector collecting those kinds of benefits?

    NO .

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 11, 2016 at 12:01 am

      No to worry….. In 5 (maybe 10 years) when their pension go belly-up, they’ll likely be coming to YOU for a loan (for which they will have no income to pay it back).

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 4:19 pm

        Silly you TL even CC’ s commission recommends cash balance plans, which are handled by the present six providers under NJABP, DROP and ACTS. If adopted the employees trust monies will be transferred to the providers, the plans are 401a and 403b hybrids, so your foolish writings will not result in the end of public pensions. Take a broom break, the NJ laws protect defined contribution plans and they are much better than private sector 401k. You have shown you k n is nothing about NJABP legislation, administration, accumulation and distribution, it’s still a winner and provides retirement benefits.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on February 11, 2016 at 10:02 pm

          Same old …… yea, keep “believing” that moving past service pension obligations to a Private Insurer (that prices it’s products CONSERVATIVELY so as to make it highly unlike they don’t cover all their expenses and make an acceptable profit) will magically fill the CURRENT 60%-70% under-funding for PAST service accruals.

          Logic only a financially illiterate person would believe.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 10:58 pm

            Every member of the NJ pension system has the option of transferring their total accumulations in db plans to one of the six providers of NJABP, is the law. Nobody hinges their pension decisions on your delusions TL. The option is open to all members because of the nondiscrimination clause, all six providers are insurance companies or provide insurance based lifetime income through an insurance company. This option has been available for decades, each employee should request copies of state pension legislation from their unions that’s why they pay dues. Your evil has no impact, take a broom break.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 1:56 am

            Quoting Anon ……….. “Every member of the NJ pension system has the option of transferring their total accumulations in db plans to one of the six providers of NJABP, is the law.”

            What does…”transferring their total accumulations” ….. mean ?

            The insurance company will only take on the obligation to pay all promised Past service accruals if they RECEIVE 100% of the (present value) of the assets needed to do so.

            But ON AVERAGE, the Plan only has 30 to 40 cents on the dollar available to make that transfer?

            So where will the 60 to 70 on the dollar SHORTFALL in assets come from ?

            _______________________

            You keep repeating the SAME thing, ignoring that the Plan is short by 30 to 40 cents on the dollar to transfer these obligations to an insurer.

            How about trying to actually ANSWER ……. …WHERE will the FULL COST of buying (from an insurance company) the fully promised pensions come from ?

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 9:07 am

      General, unsupported, inaccurate, statement based on average pension amount, retirement age, and life expectenancy.

      Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 10:19 am

      Words can’t describe what I’m thinking but your email address says it all. Another Tough Luck alias using a different IP address, hey JB!

      Reply

  8. @skanky….let’s not forget their “lifetime” health benefits either………..even after age 65 and Medicaid, their lifetime benefits are still there as a supplement…………and if one dies, the surviving spouse can keep on collecting maybe at a reduced rate but still collects…. we pay once for them to work, the second time to retire, the third time to take another usually public job and then a fourth time for survivor/beneficiary pensions when they die….and they wonder why the pension system if going belly up as we speak. Oh and all of the sick and vacation time that they never used……….

    Reply

  9. Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 12:43 pm

    Skankywoman,

    You apparently live in the wrong neighborhood. Ten percent of Americans over 65 don’t need “those kinds of benefits”, because they already have a net worth over $1.5 million. (Most of those are waaaaaaay over $1.5M) That doesn’t include the value of Social Security or any DB pensions they may have. And the top twenty percent have net worth of $900,000 or more.

    I don’t know how many of those are teachers or mechanics.

    Reply

    • Posted by dentss dunnigan on February 11, 2016 at 1:15 pm

      your drinking too much of that kool aid your union spoon feed ya…http://mymoneycounselor.com/net-worth-how-are-you-doing

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 11, 2016 at 1:29 pm

      Quoting SMD … “And the top twenty percent have net worth of $900,000 or more. I don’t know how many of those are teachers or mechanics.”

      The expected payments for a pension are little different than cash in-the-bank (of equal “value”) and no pension.

      And with the lump sum value of pension (with typical COLA increases) worth 16 to 18 times the annual payout at the ages the Public Sector workers typically retire (55 to 60), even if they had ZERO other assets (no house, no car, no clothes, no furniture, no belongings, etc.) a full career worker getting a starting pension at retirement of just about 50K would have the EQUIVALENT of a $900K “Net worth”.

      Add back in the assets typically acquired over a lifetime (even with modest earnings) and I venture to say that only a SMALL proportion of full career Public Sector retirees do not have the financial-equivalent of a $900K net worth upon retirement….. and 1/4 to 1/2 $Million MORE if they also get SS benefits.
      ————————————–

      So if your above comment was more of your “smoothing” (more properly called BS) ………….. it didn’t work

      Reply

      • Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 2:18 pm

        These days it’s fairly easy to look up the salaries and pensions of most public sector workers.
        Not so much for the private sector. There are millions of private sector workers who earn way over $200,000 a year, or have net worth well over $1million. Not just talking about the CEO of GMC. Many private sector workers are doing quite well.

        If I’ve told you once, I’ve told you ten million times; don’t exaggerate!!!

        Reply

  10. Posted by S Moderation Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    Those articles have the data for all those over 65. When separated into quintiles, or smaller groups, the higher groups have much higher net worth. The top ten percent ( in 2013) had considerably higher net worth than the overall average. Retirees in this group were more likely than others to also have DB pensions, the value of which were not included in net worth.

    http://dqydj.net/the-net-worth-of-american-retirees-america-2013/

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 11, 2016 at 4:02 pm

      Yup, time to start demanding those Public Sedtor pension/benefit reductions. From the Commission’s updated report:
      —————————————————————————-
      TRENTON — A bipartisan commission appointed by Gov. Chris Christie on Thursday released a more detailed plan to drastically reduce New Jersey’s public employee pension and health care costs.

      It’s been a year since the commission first introduced its sweeping plan to reinvent government workers’ benefits. At first, Christie sold the plan around the state, but that campaign gave way to his presidential one.

      The latest report confirms state and local governments can save billions of dollars by moving workers onto less generous health care plans, commission members said.

      The proposal calls for freezing the pension system and moving active public employees onto a cash balance retirement plan, but it hinges largely on reducing health care costs to free up cash.

      “At that time we estimated the state could save over $2 billion in health benefits spending annually and use those savings to preserve pension benefits earned to date,” the commission said in its report. “This report confirms the necessary savings can be achieved. Indeed, the new analysis shows this can be done with less impact to employees and retirees than envisioned in our 2015 report.”

      Those savings would be recycled to cover pension costs.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 4:30 pm

        The employees would still receive health benefits. It appears if the utility tax monies are returned to local govt with restriction for property tax relief, the return of employee benefit obligations to local gifts and school boards will have a major impact on local property and school tax obligations. I firmly believe the State of NJ should have an administrative, oversight role in pensions but the pension should be handled by insurers. I do not think unions should run public sector pensions period.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on February 11, 2016 at 6:29 pm

          I would be tickled pink if NJ’s Plans were products of insurance companies.

          No, I wouldn’t may even a penny form such business (directly or indirectly), but BECAUSE the insurance company …. while it will sell to NJ whatever it is willing to pay for …. the premium cost will be conservative construed, and hence NJ would likely be able to “afford” pensions about 1/4 as generous as those now promised it’s Public Sector workers.

          THAT would start bringing about some FAIRNESS for NJ’s taxpayers.
          ——————-

          And of course the above would ONLY be with respect to FUTURE Service accruals. Insurance products can’t help with the hugely underfunded PAST service accruals. Either the pensions will be reduced and or taxpayers will need to be increased by $5 Billion annually to continue paying all that has been promised ……… just with respect to PAST service.

          When (not if) the SH** hits the fan (i.e., Plan assets run down to zero), I’m betting such tax increases will NOT happen and pensions will indeed be reduced…….. or perhaps (financially equivalent … to the taxpayers) reductions in taxpayer healthcare subsidies to keep paying the past service pension accruals a bit longer.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 7:54 pm

            Again TL you do not know what you are talking about, the dc lifetime income would match and in many cases exceed db plan payout, the employee determines how much of their accumulation will be used for lifetime income. Pay TL no attention read NJABP facts and legislation understand the transition will be seemless. I am curious NJ pop. approx. 8 million with approximately 400k active employees lends itself to a closer look at shared services and consolidations of school districts.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 11, 2016 at 8:07 pm

            NJ’s Plans are (under appropriate funding assumptions/methodology) 30%-40% funded. An insurer will pay you back in expected benefits LESS than you pay in premiums (so that they can cover their expenses and make a profit).

            If the Plans now only have enough money to pay for 30%-40% of already promised pensions, moving the obligation to an insurer won’t increase that …… even though you somehow believe that the missing 60%-70% (needed to do so) will magically appear.

            Your lack of financial “common sense” is extraordinary.

          • Posted by Sean on February 11, 2016 at 8:42 pm

            It’s just a different mentality that causes the disconnect. Businesses that have to actually PAY for stuff, understand this sort of thing. The other camp seems to persistently and consistently place its collective faith in “legislation.” This is why they are always gleefully announcing such stupidity as, “well, just wait ’til the next election. You’ll see. Once we get rid of Fat Boy, everything will be restored to normal. Just you wait and see.” Right. The only thing missing is THE MONEY! The actual CASH needed to PAY for the SH*T. It doesn’t matter WHO you elect, nor does it matter what pixie dust “legislation” you get passed. All those things do is STALL the realization of the truth. It does not stall the death spiral, nor will it prolong the inevitable. It will only keep people BELIEVING longer.

            The marketing of any product or message is based upon one central tenant: Do not ever say anything that would diminish the buyer’s hopes, dreams, or aspirations. If telling the truth would violate that central tenant, then DON”T DO IT. People would much rather hear bullsh*t, even if it avoids the truth. The truth can be dealt with later.

            Every winning politician is good at marketing. And every politician has three, and only three, objectives:
            1. GET the job
            2. KEEP the job
            3. Enrich yourself in the process.

            It is simply amazing to me how much faith people will put in people who are ready, willing, and able to blow smoke up their ass. Yet, people do, and they are willing to bet their economic future on their promises.

  11. Posted by Anonymous on February 11, 2016 at 9:16 pm

    Any NJ employee reading this blog pay no attention to the people name T
    L and Sean, for decades insurers have provided retirement benefits NJ public employees through premiums paid through NJABP, DROP and ACTS program available through the NJ Division of Pensions and Benefits. The programs are supported by readopted legislation, as they must be. In Oz where both TL and Sean share space behind the curtain with the faux wizard laws don’t exist. Read your contract, pension legislation and information on public hybrid plans, no need to fear.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 11, 2016 at 11:14 pm

      To be clear:

      (1) Such insurance company product-driven Plans “CAN” work for FUTURE-Service pension benefits if the Plan Sponsor (NJ) is willing to pay the insurance company the premium it will charge. I said “CAN” work because the insurance company will not only NOT significantly LOW-BALL expected costs (as NJ now does via extremely rosy assumptions/methodology in it’s valuations), but price them conservatively, which means, to continue the SAME level of FUTURE Service accruals now promised by your current DB Plans will require annual CASH payments from NJ to the Ins. Co. likely 4+ times what NJ now contributes into it’s Plans . Where would that money come from ?

      (2) Insurance Products simply CANNOT “solve” the problem that ALREADY exists due to the severely underfunded PAST Service accruals. To repeat what I stated above on this subject:

      “NJ’s Plans are (under appropriate funding assumptions/methodology) 30%-40% funded. An insurer will pay you back in expected benefits LESS than you pay in premiums (so that they can cover their expenses and make a profit). If the Plans now only have enough money to pay for 30%-40% of already promised pensions, moving the obligation to an insurer won’t increase that …… even though you somehow believe that the missing 60%-70% (needed to do so) will magically appear.”
      —————————-

      If you want to remain in a state of DENIAL …. keep believing Anon and that a snap of the fingers (i.e., a switch-over to Insurance Company products) will magically create the money that does now not exist.

      Reply

      • I think the “Anon” that keeps stating that some type of private insurance product is going to miraculously fund PS pension benefits (regardless of the resources available to pay said insurance company) is actually Professor Irwin Corey. No one else could continuously draft such nonsensical drivel.

        Reply

  12. Posted by Sean on February 12, 2016 at 12:11 am

    But Anonymous DOES have a solution: Just don’t listen to people like Sean, TL, or anyone else who confronts the Pixie Dust Plan.

    Reply

  13. Posted by Sean on February 12, 2016 at 12:23 am

    Here’s a little experiment for you to try, Anonymous:

    1. Drive to the nearest gas station.
    2. Put $30 worth of gas in your tank.
    3. Give the cashier $10.
    4. If you get any crap from the cashier, tell them you have constitutional protections that provide you with the benefit of $30 worth of gas.

    Let me know how that works out for you.

    Reply

  14. Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 12:32 am

    The public employees can ask/demand that their unions provide documents and information sessions about options under NJABP.TL and Sean are fatalistic, they get some perverted sense of pleasure from their delusions about the total demise of public pensions, knowledge is power, the more employees that understand the past, present will be instrumental in the next level of reforms. My suggestion keep politicians and union executives away from the money, oversight of the process is important, legislative protection, guarantee of employer contributions. Sean is a underemployed has been and TL is a math snob that doesn’t understand processes.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 2:15 am

      Ok…….. but will “providing documents” and “information sessions” fill the asset shortfall ?

      Like I said before …. where will the missing 30 to 40 cents on the dollar (to pay for the promised pensions) come from ?

      The insurance company won’t take 30 to 40 cents on the dollar as payment to cover 100% of the promised pensions.
      ———————————–

      NOTING you say addresses that VERY REAL problem.

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 2:28 am

      Hey …. I’m now a “math snob”.

      Didn’t know there was such a thing. Some might call that ….. being educated/capable ……. and heck, maybe even talented.

      Thanks, I consider that a compliment !

      Reply

  15. Posted by Sean on February 12, 2016 at 12:57 am

    Hey, Anonymous, I have a message to you from Cuba Gooding Jr.

    SHOW ME THE MONEY!

    In all of your fantasizing, you have yet to reveal how you will get THE MONEY. Over and over, you go off on these little bunny trails of nomenclature and acronyms, coupled with useless personal jabs, trying to create a smoke screen to hide from a very simple question: Where will THE MONEY come from? We all know that you have no answer. You almost sound like a politician.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 2:22 am

      Yes, he would be a perfect politician.

      Based on his strong persistence, coupled with a complete lack of facts/understanding, he seems like the perfect person to fill Sweeney’s role if Sweeney becomes NJ’s next Governor.

      After all, isn’t Sweeney essentially doing in the NJ Senate what Anon is doing here ?

      Reply

  16. Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 3:26 am

    To NJ public employees your pension arguments are in the documents, now these two that called for dc plans do not understand that the accrued assets fir each public employee would be transferred to the “proposed” cash balanced plan both vested.and non vested. The matter moves to real solutions and these two remain stuck on the problem,

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 3:45 am

      Let’s run with that Anon …………

      (1) What does …. “your pension arguments are in the documents” …. mean ?

      (2) You said … “the accrued assets for each public employee would be transferred to the “proposed” cash balanced”

      Ok, at least you made a clear statement this time and are addressing PAST service accruals (as well as perhaps Future service accruals going forward).

      But since (a) REAL assets are the only thing that can be transferred to a Cash Balance Plan (because each participant has an ASSET account balance), and (b) NJ’s Plans only have assets sufficient to cover 30% to 40% of the promised pensions, then (c) the ASSET account balances will only be sufficient to support a pension payout of 30% to 40% of what was promised in the DB Plan.

      In other words, with respect to PAST Service DB Plan accruals, the transfer to a CB Plan accomplishes NOTHING.

      Please me (in plainly spoken English) how I’m wrong.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 4:00 am

        Silly you they aren’t transferring the total future pension payout, the accrued asset are transferred and pooled by age and future retirement date. The eventual pension payout of based on employer/employee contribution, investment gains and guaranteed assets is up to the employee. Thousands of public employees for decades have retired under insurance based public sector dc plans for decades, this commenter included. I know for sure you and Sean have a solution void and based on 35 years of active participation and as a dc plan retiree I am the expert not you two.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 4:35 am

          Anon,

          (1) I’m well aware that they … “aren’t transferring the total future pension payout”…. and I never stated that they were.

          (2) you stated …”the accrued asset are transferred and pooled by age and future retirement date”

          Sorry, but that’s NOT the way Cash Balance Plans worker. Sure, total assets are commingled for investment purposes, but EACH individual participant has his own account balance ….. which MUST be backed by REAL “ASSETS”.

          Which take us full circle AGAIN.

          Currently NJ’s Plans only have 30% to 40% of the assets needed to buy (i.e. pay the Present Value of) the promised PAST service accruals. That’s ALL the assets it has to “transfer” to a CB Plan. And those transferred assets will only fund 30% to 40% of PAST service DB pension Plan accruals.

          (3) quoting … “the eventual pension payout of based on employer/employee contribution, investment gains and guaranteed assets is up to the employee. ”

          Gobbledygook. Says nothing and means nothing

          (4) Quoting ….. “Thousands of public employees for decades have retired under insurance based public sector dc plans for decades, this commenter included.”

          So what ? Meaningless to this discussion.

          (5) Quoting ….. “I know for sure you and Sean have a solution void”

          ALL solutions will be financially painful to some group(s) (workers/taxpayers), and ANY viable “solution” MUST (at a minimum) include VERY material pension/benefit reductions. You have offered no “solution”.

          (6) Quoting …. “based on 35 years of active participation and as a dc plan retiree I am the expert not you two.”

          Don’t make me laugh. You are either a charlatan or clueless in-the-extreme.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 12:12 pm

            The NJABP, ACT and DROP, Dc plans have been in place for decades, 401a and 403b lifetime income payout pooled assets. TL cash balance, money purchase and profit sharing dc plans are individual accounts, if the participant at retirement choses lifetime income the group asset pooled insurance policy kicks in, the State of NJ is the group policyholder. TL you are out of your comfort zone in this discussion, I have lived this NJABP reality for decades transferring from PERS to NJABP, so I walk my talk.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 3:26 pm

            Anon, Unless NJ is acting in an absurdly inappropriate way ….. by (with assets well below the funding necessary to fully pay promised Past service DB pension accruals) transferring to the DC Plan not the PROPORTIONATE SHARE of assets (were they to be equally distributed to all members) but 100% of the assets necessary to fully fund (via the DC Plans) all promises made (under the DB Plan) what you are saying makes no sense.

            And if they ARE doing what I just described ….. essentially for transferees, ignoring the asset shortfall …….. then for each participant so transferring, all the remainder (who stay in the DB Plan) suffer from a small increase in DB Plan under-funding because MORE than a proportionate share of Plan assets has been transferred on transferee’s behalf.

            While completely inappropriate, given the incompetence of NJ’s workers (and lack of careful attention to APPROPRIATE practice) I wouldn’t be totally surprised if NJ is in fact doing such. In which case, if I were a DB Plan participant, I would RUN to make that transfer ASAP ….. before the State realizes how wrong this practice is. Those who transfer, effectively locking up full funding of 100% of their DB Plan promises while those who don’t get screwed even more. Of course if NJ is in fact doing this and a large # of DB participants quickly elected to transfer, eventually the geniuses (sarcasm !) allowing this would realize how stupid & wrong allowing it (EVER) has been.

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 4:20 pm

            The existing law supports the transfer from db to dc hybrid. The law doesn’t have a participant cap.

        • Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 5:12 pm

          The State of NJ is obligated to pay retirees pensions through the existing trust fund or by purchasing a group annuity from a private insurer, in the meantime active members can transfer from the State sponsored DB plans to State sponsored DC plans with no problem, there are six providers.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 5:29 pm

            It is not the responsibility of active employees to be concerned about the administration of the State pension scheme they transfer from, that’s the State’s responsibility if there is enough money to cover retirees present and future.

  17. Posted by Sean on February 12, 2016 at 12:45 pm

    Well, I’m sure TL will be floored to know that you “walk your talk.”

    But you are walking the walk of someone participating in a Ponzi scheme, and you are talking the talk of someone who doesn’t realize he is in a Ponzi scheme.

    None of the talking points on your brochure are going to produce the REAL MONEY needed to PAY for them.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 3:28 pm

      Sean ….. take a look at my above reply to Anon.

      Do you think NJ could be so stupid as to be transferring 100% of the assets needed to fully fund the DB Plan promises for each transferee ?

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 4:30 pm

        TL read the readopted law, the website supports transfer of accrued assets from the db trust to dc provides, individual accounts lifetime income individual assets purchase benefits from pooled assets. The law is the law.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 4:56 pm

          Ok, but what exactly does “accrued assets” mean when the “accruals” in a DB Plan are not expressed in terms of “assets” (as WOULD BE the case in a DC Plan) but in the form of a promise to pay specific BENEFITS (a monthly life annuity beginning at some point in the future) ?

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 5:16 pm

            Each participant knows their vested and non vested accrual but the transfer as long as they are active employees includes both vested and non vested accumulations but you know all of this TL you are the DC plan expert.

          • Posted by Tough Love on February 12, 2016 at 8:31 pm

            Anon, Are you saying that each participant …. while still in the DB Plan ….. “knows their vested and non vested accrual” ?

            If so, how is that DB plan accrual (whcih as I stated in an earlier comment is expressed in terms of a promised monthly income, not “assets”), converted to the $$ amount of assets to be transferred to the DC Plan ?

    • Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 4:22 pm

      I am a participant in a legal state sponsored define contribution plan, you prove ponzi scheme Sean.

      Reply

  18. Posted by Sean on February 12, 2016 at 4:27 pm

    Well, just when you think you’ve seen it all…

    While I don’t believe it’s possible for ANYONE to be THAT stupid, I live in Illinois, the land where the Governor’s make the license plates, so… I guess anything is possible.

    Talk about a run on the bank! I wonder how long it would take their website to crash as everyone with a brain cell still left would scramble for a lifeboat. Not likely to happen, though. If it did, all it would accomplish is a redistribution of the screwing, the haves, and the (REALLY!) have nots.

    Reply

  19. Posted by Anonymous on February 12, 2016 at 5:20 pm

    The interesting thing is the Alternate Benefit option exists in Illinois.

    Reply

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