Lying At Will – and Mika and Joe

This morning’s appearance by Chris Christie on Monrning Joe caught the attention of Tom Moran for the lie that was allowed to pass unchallenged.  It wasn’t the only one:


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According to official actuarial reports as of 6/30/09 unfunded liabilities were $46 billion with a funded ratio of 66% and as of 6/30/14 they were $53 billion and 61% respectively though the latter numbers ignore the new GASB rules on interest rates and the probable return of COLAs.  No numbers exist (or can be manipulated into existence) that show the pension liability being ‘much bigger’ five years ago.

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The pension crisis had its own wikipedia entry by 2010 and Jon Corzine focused on it back in 2006.

The full segment:

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50 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Tough Love on October 30, 2015 at 3:17 am

    Sure, Corzine focused on it in 2006, but he caved in to pressure from the Public Sector Unions, and instead of demanding reductions in future service pensions accruals, he tried to UNJUSTLY raise money by selling the NJ Turnpike….. just another backdoor way to screw the Taxpayers.

    Reply

    • Posted by Pat on October 30, 2015 at 9:58 am

      Well, the idea of selling or leasing assets is not necessarily a bad one. I would rather pay for something as I use it (i.e. tolls) and I certainly don’t mind if non-residents pay to use it as they pass through the state! 42-working days to go!

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on October 30, 2015 at 10:56 am

        Wish you all the best, don’t let the anti publics rain on your parade BUT don’t count on health coverage as it is today. Even Starbucks provides some coverage with premium share for part-time workers, can’t find that in the public sector!

        Reply

        • Posted by dentss dunnigan on October 30, 2015 at 11:47 am

          Pat ,if sold you could kiss all the union jobs on the pike goodbye

          Reply

          • That all by itself is a good reason to sell. Sell the GSP, the TPKE, NJ Transit, All Stadiums, Race Tracks, Convention Centers, Medical/Dental School, State subsidized Hospitals etc. etc. and off load from future State support ALL of the attached overpaid, over benefited public agency employees. What a great day that would be!!

    • Posted by ~The Resident Nutcase on October 30, 2015 at 12:04 pm

      No, he should have made the payments in full into the pension funds!! If this was done from the start…. We wouldn’t have an issue as bad as it is now.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on October 30, 2015 at 4:12 pm

        Wrong ….. Taxpayers should contribute towards the pensions and benefits of Public Sector workers NO MORE than what they typically get from their employers. PUBLIC Sector workers are NOT “special” and “DESERVING” of a better deal on the Taxpayers’ dime.

        Yes, they have been GRANTED FAR FAR MORE (without DESERVING such), but only because the PUBLIC Sector Unions have successfully BOUGHT the favorable votes of our self-interested, contribution-soliciting, vote-selling, taxpayer-betraying Elected Official with campaign contributions and election support.

        Taxpayers would be NUTS to honor such collusion and underhanded deal-making.

        Christie has the CORRECT approach ….. if the Unions/Legislature won’t “fix” the structural problem (meaning VERY material reductions of AL LEAST 50% in retiree healthcare benefits and future service pensions accruals) ….. then STARVE the Plans of taxpayer-funding.

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on October 30, 2015 at 5:00 pm

          Override compromise, similar to what you’ve outlined above, forthcoming.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 30, 2015 at 6:24 pm

            Your idea of “compromise” is to give back 5-10% of the INCREMENTAL ADVANTAGE that PUBLIC Sector workers now have.

            Earth to BH, The Resident Nutcase, Anonymous (whoever you are today), that’s not compromise.

            There is ZERO justification for ANY compensation advantage. You’re NOT “special” and deserving off MORE….. on the Taxpayers’ dime.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 30, 2015 at 6:39 pm

            What part of similar (meaning close to) to what you stated above don’t you get? Compromise can NEVER be reached with out TRUST, past is not present nor future – chill out?

      • Posted by Tough Love on October 31, 2015 at 12:57 am

        • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 8:01 am

          Nice to know bondholders and pension debt are on the same playing field, but what of pay-as-you-go constitutional benefit payments???

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 31, 2015 at 8:22 am

            Quoting … “but what of pay-as-you-go constitutional benefit payments”.

            That would require an $8 Billion increase in Taxes. Not a prayer in NJ, the ALREADY highest-taxed State in the nation.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 8:29 am

            I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Trenton needs to play a little Washington Tea Party “chicken” to resolve this issue. Gov’s not willing to compromise, a little. Then Dems should propose a budget cutting ALL debt service, including component unit conduit debt and appropriate the additional monies to pension payments. If that doesn’t get EVERYBODYS interest Orson Welles wouldn’t.

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 31, 2015 at 8:33 am

            So, you’re recommending that NJ shoot itself in the foot ?

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 8:36 am

            Sounds like it’s “legal” based on your article link? Those NJSC rulings can come back to haunt us!

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 8:37 am

            Just to clear, NO, I’m suggesting we need another motivating variable to get everybodys attention in Trenton.

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 31, 2015 at 9:18 am

            The “motivation” NJ needs is to jail a few Elected Officials whose favorable votes on Public Sector pay, pensions, and benefits are undeniably the RESULT of bribes (aka Campaign contributions).

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 9:38 am

            Take your case to the NJSC…..

      • Posted by Anonymous on November 2, 2015 at 6:55 pm

        For the last time, there is NO money for the pensions unless you want every service cut, public layoffs, etc and still there would not be enough.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on November 2, 2015 at 8:18 pm

          Anon,

          Doing so …”every service cut” …. is fine with BH, The Resident Nutcase, or whatever ……. as long as he and his family gets 100% of the gross excess (even for FUTURE Service not yet worked) promised on the 1-st day of employment ….. irrespective of the act that ERISA provides no such guarantees for Private Sector worker pensions.

          Just ask him ……. he has stated that he’s “special” and deserving of all that has been promised.

          Reply

    • Posted by S Moderation Douglas on October 31, 2015 at 2:57 pm

      If states were allowed to file bankruptcy, does anyone really believe they would default only on pensions and no other debt? Or would it be “Katie bar the door”?

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 5:07 pm

        Remember the NJ Judges who, prior to the 2011 reforms, didn’t contribute to their pension. Subsequently filed a lawsuit challenging their employee contributions under an undiminished salary clause. The Legislature and Governor (yes once they actually sort of worked with each other) quickly got a constitutional amendment on the ballot, which passed. And the Judges are the same group that will dispose impartial justice upon this matter, eventually. Fair and equal, maybe in heaven but not in this hell.

        Reply

      • Posted by denis B on October 31, 2015 at 8:12 pm

        Declaring bankruptcy is ugly and hurtful for all Stockton Ca did so a few years ago over pensions ,and it’s not a pretty sight http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-31/shantytown-stockton-california-usa#comment-6735576

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 9:00 pm

          Hard to phatmon the expotential impact of bankruptcy above the Local government level!!!

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 31, 2015 at 10:19 pm

            The State not now being able to file for bankruptcy doesn’t mean it can’t just stop paying full pensions or unilaterally reduce retiree healthcare benefits ………. both assuredly in NJ’s near-term future. ….. and to simply ignore Court orders to do otherwise.

            When there is no money available and sufficient tax revenue cannot be raised, promises get broken.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 10:41 pm

            Not likely as you’ve outlinef with a Democratically controlled legislature and probably soon to be Governor. Gambling coming to Trenton soon, get ready to roll the dice – craps?

          • Posted by Tough Love on October 31, 2015 at 10:59 pm

            Anon, Clearly you misunderstood my earlier comment. While I agree that the standoff between Christie and NJ’s Union-controlled Legislature will continue, so will the rundown of NJ’s pension Plan assets.

            When their gone ….. in less than 5 years …… it’s game-over.

          • Posted by Anonymous on October 31, 2015 at 11:02 pm

            No I understood, that’s when the games begin.

          • Posted by denis B on November 1, 2015 at 12:02 pm

            The state can’t go paygo that would be like a 7 to 8 billion new tax now …in 5 years you could be talking 15 billion new tax ..that would be psychically impossibly ….

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 1, 2015 at 1:11 pm

            Exactly ….. and THAT is why NJ’s Public Sector pension Plans are dead.

            Greed HAS consequences.

  2. Posted by Anonymous on November 1, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    Andy Williams – The Impossible Dream (The Quest) – YouTube

    OR like SMD said “Katie Bar the Door”

    Reply

  3. Posted by Anonymous on November 1, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    We’ll have to touch base after the next few elections, it’s like Howie Mandel says “Deal or No Deal”!!!

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on November 1, 2015 at 2:11 pm

      Taxpayers must put an END to the insatiably-greedy/thieving Public Sector Unions ….. nothing but a CANCER inflicted upon civilized society

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on November 1, 2015 at 2:14 pm

        AND their self-interested, contribution-soliciting, vote-selling, taxpayer-betraying (Public-Sector-union-BOUGHT-OFF) Elected Official enablers.

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on November 1, 2015 at 3:42 pm

          And as to Christie’s Super PAC donors self interest groups and what he’s done and will do to repay them?

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 1, 2015 at 5:45 pm

            Surprise. ……………I agree with that.

          • Posted by Anonymous on November 1, 2015 at 6:02 pm

            Agreed ? your signing his praise b/c it was in his and theirs (no not taxpayers) best interest to push their agenda!

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 1, 2015 at 8:20 pm

            Anon, Your so quick to criticize …..

            Above, I was agreeing that the SUPER PACs and Special Interests are BAD NEWS.

          • Posted by Tough Love on November 1, 2015 at 8:22 pm

            And yes BH, I realize that in my above comment, “your” should have been “you’re”

      • Posted by Anonymous on November 2, 2015 at 6:58 pm

        TL, the taxpayers don’t have to do anything, the whole sham will implode upon itself at some point. There is no honor among thieves. The only thing left to ponder is who will be governor at that time and be willing to take the fall in exchange for their full pension of course.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on November 2, 2015 at 7:22 pm

          Quoting Anon ….. “the taxpayers don’t have to do anything, the whole sham will implode upon itself at some point.”

          It certainly will with current (or anywhere near current) funding levels and a continuation of the current (grossly excessive) pensions.

          Assuredly, the low funding will not change while Christie remains in office …. unless our Public Sector BOUGHT-OFF Democratic Legislature has an epiphany and freezes the DB Plans (or VERY materially reduces future service accruals) as proposed by the NJ pension Commission.

          And I seriously doubt that even with the next Governor being a Democrat, that the Legislature will have the nerve to increase taxes SUFFICIENTLY to materially push back the NJ Plans’ drop dead (i.e. pay-as-you-go) dates. Beyond all else, ALL politicians’ #1 priority is to be re-elected, and they know that a “sufficient” tax increase is so great that they would …. in the next election …. be kicked out of office.

          Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on November 4, 2015 at 11:00 am

          Nice one MJ.

          Reply

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