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With the 2011 pension reforms collapsing and the aggressive investments in the New Jersey pension and benefits fund tanking you would think that the scramble to come up with the billion+ dollars that the fund needs to liquidate to pay out monthly benefits would be a major story but it’s not.  The legislature is off until after the November elections and Chris Christie is discussing topics of interests to people in Iowa and New Hampshire, which so far have not included the bankruptcy of New Jersey’s retirement system.

So we are left to look elsewhere for interesting tidbits and below are a few videos that I found to be so – the first two I patched together and the rest taken from this site.

I get a sense from watching some old downloaded mainstream movies that, though they obviously don’t show the sex acts, some of the minds of past generations were dirtier than ours.  Here are two clips from 1963 and 1957 that made me wonder.  Use the comments section to guess the movies they came from:
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The terrorist comparison and outrage when somebody else does it:
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The full clip of Christie making his comparison:
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The Christie Sense:
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Cowboy Ethics:
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Bullying
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Interacting with Wildstein:
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Gifting 9/11 Wreckage:
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Since I’m back to answer comment questions here is another video that came up today that seems to pose some serious questions about football as a sport. Is it just two bad kids or the environment they are in:
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47 responses to this post.

  1. “”With the 2011 pension reforms collapsin””…
    How so?
    Last time I checked every single requirement set fourth in ch78 is still in full force…. Except …ya know….the part where the state pays into the pensions….

    Reply

    • There’s that and also the current state of the COLAs is that they are due, pending appeal, and all the other reforms, minor as they are, kick in about 20 years from now.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on September 7, 2015 at 3:54 pm

        That last part …… “and all the other reforms, minor as they are, kick in about 20 years from now.” …. is so key.

        Public Sector workers and their families/supporters (e.g., this Blog’s resident nutcase BH) like to highlight big CH78 changes, but other than the COLA “suspension” (now being challenged in Court), there ARE NONE, and especially none that apply to all of NJ employees hired before the effective date of CH78. Unless changed, these employees will CONTINUE to accrue pension credits under the grossly excessive and unaffordable formulas & provision in place today.

        The NJ pension Commission had it right by recommending a FREEZE to the DB pensions of all of NJ’s State and Local workers (ZERO future growth) ………….. but likely STILL not enough because of the HUGE magnitude of unjust and unfunded PAST Service accruals.

        Reply

        • (e.g., this Blog’s resident nutcase BH)
          Why TL….. Than you!!! Love that you always think of me…
          I’m just advocating for the public worker. I know that confuses and enrages you. But how boring would this place be if we all agreed???? The point is to debate and To get the truth no??
          ……You want me on that blog….You need me on that blog….

          Reply

      • Well, with all due respect Mr. Bury, I disagree with,”all the other reforms, minor as they are, kick in about 20 years from now”…
        What about everyone now paying 35% of the healthcare premium? That started 4 yrs ago. And it will go on into retirement…… So calling 35%, when 4 years ago it was 0% …minor…. I simply do not agree with. That’s not 20 years from not…….that’s happening now.

        Reply

        • What about the 2% property tax increase cap???
          What about the 2% cap in arbitration awards??? This is all happening now…….

          Reply

          • I don’t know what impact the 2% arbitration cap has had that 2% cap on property tax increases has been an utter failure. Because of all the exclusions Union County (which is the only budget I know in debt) has seen about 4% tax increases and, worse still, to maintain the spending they have become accustomed to they have piled on the debt and raided the Open Space trust fund which only exacerbates the problems for those of us trapped here.

        • From the taxpayer perspective having public employees pay more has had a negligible impact their bottom lines since total premiums continue to rise apace so as to subsidize the Norcrosses and the Hales who in turn subsidize the politicians. It was an easy choice for the Democrats to throw public employees under the bus when it came to co-pays when the alternative was to piss off Norcross et. alia.

          Reply

          • No reforms will ever make their way onto nj taxpayer dinner tables……. But An average of $10,000 per year, per public employee is far from minor. Whether or not we think it’s enough, too much or not enough is …..irrelevant to my point.
            Let’s at least acknowledge that “something” was done. And while some of the reforms won’t be impactful until 20 yrs from now, some are impactful now. We should not let all that effort some took to get those reforms, be trivialized by calling them minor…. is all I’m saying…..
            I know most on this blog demonize the public workers… But to be fair, I doubt if asked whether that extra $10,000 is minor to them….. many would agree.
            Just giving an opposing view is all. If this was entirely an anti union blog, it would be less interesting.
            Good day-

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 7, 2015 at 7:50 pm

            John,

            My understanding is that full career Police and Teachers who retire with 25 years of service pay no retiree healthcare premiums.

            DO know if that is still true?

          • I assume how much retirees pay might vary by locality and whatever their contracts called for but here is the Fact Sheet on benefits if provided through the state health plans:
            http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/pensions/pdf/factsheets/fact11.pdf

          • “”My understanding is that full career Police and Teachers who retire with 25 years of service pay no retiree healthcare premiums.””

            I’m surprised TL….you don’t know the answer to that very very important question!!!

            I know that in PFRS…. As of the signing of ch78 in 2011… Everyone enrolled has to pay 35% of the healthcare premium, whatever that may be at the time. Don’t forget, this number increases every year as premiums go up. That goes into retirement as well. They pay now and forever……
            Anyone with 20 or more years of service as of 2011 was exempt. Most of those individuals are retired by now or have one foot out the door. Everyone else pays 35%……

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 8, 2015 at 11:15 am

            BH, You aren’t a source that I trust for accurate information.

            You seem to be implying that ONLY those with 20 years of service in 2011 (i.e. those hired before 1991) were exempt form paying 35% of their healthcare costs in retirement.

            That’s a BIG group hired from 1991 through 2010, and I really doubt that this group, when they retire will be paying 35% of their retiree healthcare costs …. especially Police Officers and Teacher with 25+ years of service.

            I would like to hear from OTHER readers on this.

  2. Posted by Anonymous on September 7, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    John a loaded question; what’s your perfect vision, in an imperfect NJ, on a resolution to the pension and health benefits issue?

    Reply

    • Like what I’ve been hearing of the Transportation Trust Fund, the Pension and Benefits Fund will hit $0 at some time but there are too many variables to predict exactly when.

      I see it coming fairly swoon since I don’t think that $80 billion they claim to have is really there. With all those alternative investments and so much money in stocks that are tanking I suspect there are some people in the Division of Investments who grasp the real situation are getting a little nervous.

      Reply

  3. If it goes near or close to zero reality will set in (maybe) and action may happen. At which time a pension cap (1.5 times max social security), retirement at 65 (62 with reduced benefits) heath care premium support would be the wisest course. There will be scream from the leaches as they are removed from the public teat, but the voters will wake up when they see services eliminated, fees for breathing and property taxes go through the roof.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on September 7, 2015 at 9:04 pm

      Quoting …”fees for breathing ”

      Really ???

      Reply

      • Arithmetic always wins in the end. Quoting a more erudite financial commentator, if something cannot continue, it won’t. That is the sad news that the PS drones in NJ must eventually come to grips with.

        Reply

        • BH – Just for you – here is a Washington Post (hardly a conservative outpost) article that sums up why firemen are outrageously overpaid and over benefited:

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/rweb/ideas/fewer-fires-so-why-are-there-far-more-firefighters/2015/09/05/05316abe-517c-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 7, 2015 at 9:57 pm

            You need to Google the article’s title to get the full article w/o being a Washington Post subscriber. The title is:

            Fewer Fires, So Why Are There Far More Firefighters?

          • There’s not far more firefighters….. Just like police… Budgets have forced towns to cut manpower!!! There isn’t one municipality that has the same manpower from a decade ago!!! Not one.
            And… For most of them…. Call volume has increased steadily!! but you already knew all that…..

          • Posted by S Moderation Douglas on September 8, 2015 at 1:47 pm

            Not really a Washington Post “article”. It is in the opinion section and authored by one Fred S. McChesney.

            Self described as “a professor of law and economics at the University of Miami who studies the intersection of economics and public institutions.”

            AKA,

            Fred S. McChesney, research fellow with The Independent Institute

            Just how “independent” is the institute?

            http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/1999/9911.callahan.think.html

            Just take it with a grain of salt.

        • Posted by Tough Love on September 7, 2015 at 11:02 pm

          Quoting BH …. “There’s not far more firefighters….. Just like police… Budgets have forced towns to cut manpower!!! ”

          While I don’t know if that’s true, I do know that we would have a GREAT DEAL more money available to pay “SALARIES” if we weren’t over-compensating via the grossly excessive pensions & benefits in place EVERYWHERE in the Public Sector today.

          And call volume from FIRES is indeed WAY down …. it’s almost all Medical calls today ……. as that article stated. Fires are a rarity. Except in the very largest of cities, we need volunteer Fire Departments and paid EMTs, at 1/3 the ludicrous compensation now paid to firefighters.

          Reply

          • You could safely eliminate at least half of the country’s fire departments. Homeowners need equipment and safety training. In addition, beef up LEO with some fire training and turn over all medical calls to EMT. No need for a hook and ladder truck to show up for a hotel heart attack. We are using and paying for circa 1900 fire service 115 years after the fact.

          • Fires are a rarity??? Guess you don’t have a clue. There’s at least 10 structure fires per day throughout NJ

          • A fire occurs once every 21 minutes in NJ. So before you continue to spew more venom about things you don’t know….. Here’s the truth!

            http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/dfs/pdf/fire_in_nj_2013.pdf

            For those who think career firefighters should be disbanded…… Think before you speak. You’ve no idea the job these people do. Thank god structure fires are down…. But call volume is up!!! They are no longer just firefighters… They are your all hazard ….who us gonna call?? Heros!!!! Just like the cops.
            Pray you don’t need either in your lifetime!!

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 8, 2015 at 11:22 am

            BH, yeah, I had a “fire” in my house too. It was confined to my stove when running the “clean” cycle. Never got out of the stove, never caused any damage, just looked a bit unsettling, likely as spilled grease burned off.

            Ill bet my “fire” is part of your statistics.

            And in addition, I DID say that bigger cities should have paid fire dept’s. If we exclude NJ’s bigger cities how any of those fires remain ?

          • There ya go again TL….. Showing your true selfish colors .
            .”Ill bet my “fire” is part of your statistics””

            I’m sure you weren’t thinking about the 60 civilians or 4 firefighters who lost their lives that year…….
            Typical P.O.S!!!!

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 8, 2015 at 11:50 am

            BH, You forgot to include the word “hero”.

          • I knew it was more than money with you…… You’re disdain and contempt for firefighters is clearly evident. It’s not the unions, not the pensions,,,,
            Did you fail the entrance exam?? Couldn’t make the cut?? Or you realized too late in life you chose the wrong career and now you simply hate them???
            Glad the posters and lurkers get to see your true colors

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 8, 2015 at 12:02 pm

            BH, As to true colors …. look into a mirror …. to see yours. What you’ll see is insatiable greed and arrogance towards the Taxpayers.

            And the word “hero” is used FAR to freely and FAR too often.

      • Posted by Anonymous on September 8, 2015 at 1:25 pm

        TL. The 35% premium for health care is carried over into retirement for those with less than 20 urs of service as of June 2011. The number is higher than private sector employee paid premiums. With no social security(pfrs) and as of now no cola on pension and raises averaging about 1.5 to 2 percent a year, these premiums will be a significant portion of retiree costs. You rail against public employees getting a better deal than private sector and don’t even concede these are big numbers to a guy making $80000 or so in nj. Maybe we should be like Murray sabin suggets, and police should live in 2 bedroom apartments. Would that make you feel better? Like you tl, I am trying to provide a middle class living for my family and make no bones about the reasons I go to work (the money) like you I take pride in my job but would be lying if I said I would do it for free or less than livable wage. I always give my best effort but that will never be enough for people like you who would step on someone to save a dime. While there are many that thinklike you, you ate truly on the fringe.

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on September 8, 2015 at 1:37 pm

          And I agree that the word hero should be saved for cops/fireman that save a life or put themselves in danger to serve mankind (arrest) but contrary to what you think it is a really tough job. Police (not so much fire) in today’s climate or under appreciated by both the left and right. We have dems backing the black lIves matter movement while cops are getting ambushed and Republicans trying to put us in the poor house. By and large we are a conservative group with democratic needs. You really need people that know what they are doing on calls such as domestic violence calls, missing kids, fatal accidents, being recorded every minute. Let me tell you, it is not that great of a job. It is a good job, not what it once was.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 8, 2015 at 4:47 pm

            I agree with a lot of what you stated…… it is such a tragedy that that Harvard-educated lawyer working for Gov. Cuomo was shot in the head yesterday. When I hear such things I wish NYC could declare an “emergency” and notwithstanding Constitutional issues go door-to-door confiscating illegal weapons and jailing those who own/hide them. Think about how much safer NYC’s streets would be for BOTH the Police and NYC’s residents.

            Perhaps illegal gun-carrying Gang members should lose their Constitutional protection.

        • Posted by Tough Love on September 8, 2015 at 4:40 pm

          Anon, Until I hear otherwise I will assume that you are correct in that those with less than 20 years of service in 2011 will pay 35% of their retiree healthcare premiums.

          But what is the basis for extending that to ….. “The number is higher than private sector employee paid premiums. ” ? Today it is the rare Private Sector worker indeed that gets ANY employer-sponsored retiree subsidy AT ALL.

          I don’t know what you do in the Public Sector by I can categorically say that the value of YOUR pension & benefits upon retirement will be AT LEAST 3 times greater than that typically granted THE LUCKY FEW Private Sector workers who still have DB pensions Plans, and a much greater multiple than the majority that only have 401K Plans.

          I am not challenging or disrespecting hard working and honest Public Sector employees, I’m simply (and strongly) advocating that Public Sector empoyees be compensated (in pay + pension + benefit) EQUAL to what that job (or a job with reasonably similar risks, experience, knowledge and skills) would pay in the Private Sector.

          Why should we pay you more ? The money supply (generated to pay such expenses) is finite, and every unnecessary/unjustified $1 we pay you is $1 unnecessarily/unjustly taken from a Taxpayer.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on September 9, 2015 at 11:21 am

            Again, the point I am trying to make is that many people who think like you seem to think that equal should really be less for public employees. I Live In A split level in a bergen county suburb. My spouse works and I have a couple kids. I have a comfortable but by no means extravagant life. There are certainly no doctors, lawyers, executives etc on my block. Yet there are no deadbeats, people having trouble keeping a job etc either. Despite what you think, I am really no better off than your average middle class guy. I own 2 cars and will be able to pay for about 70 % of my kids college and save about 25k a year for retirement outside my pension. I also don’t gamble, buy stuff I don’t need, eat at expensive places, etc. If I lived like some people even on my block I would have no $ saved. There should be a reward for that in the form of a secure retirement. I also agree w you in terms of illegal guns and although it shouldn’t be it will be a topic for another day. Or decade. Who knows how many more will be shot first. But to think that most public workers have it so good is really being disingenuous. I think most people who are college educated as I am probably are within 20 % or so either way of me in terms of standard of living. Candidly, most of the reason for our problem, mostly a suburban one when we talk taxes is 1) we get screwed on money back from our federal taxes. We pay so much more than we get back. And 2) income tax going to urban school systems. Huge disparity.

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 9, 2015 at 12:26 pm

            Quoting …”Again, the point I am trying to make is that many people who think like you seem to think that equal should really be less for public employees. ”

            That’s a tough sentence to decipher….

            Are you saying That I’M not really calling for EQUAL, but less? If so, you are misinterpreting my goal …. as I indeed mean EQUAL in total compensation (including ALL elements of compensation….. wages, pensions, healthcare while active and retired, insurance, etc.). While I’m not sure where you stand on that, MOST (by far) Public Sector workers do not want EQUAL, because they do not want to give up the material “Total Compensation” advantage that they have now …. even for FUTURE Service not yet earned.. While understandable, that’s NOT acceptable.

            Or, are you saying that you believe that I am truly advocating for EQUAL, but that OTHERS aren’t, and are advocating for less ? Well, I’m not pushing for or even suggesting that outcome.

            ———————

            Quoting ….. “I own 2 cars and will be able to pay for about 70 % of my kids college and save about 25k a year for retirement outside my pension.”

            While I don’t know what you do nor what you are paid, I can assure you that the typical Middle Class Private Sector worker can save no where near $25K annually IN TOTAL, let alone IN ADDITION TO what would be another level annual 30%-50% of their pay to duplicate the VERY TYPICAL Defined Benefit pension granted Public Sector workers everywhere. I’m sure you are astonished by those percentages, but to fully fund over one’s working career (using appropriate methodology/assumptions of the type PRIVATE Sector pension Plan sponsors are REQUIRED to use by the US Gov’t), the typical non-safety-worker pension would require a level annual payment of approximately 30% of pay. And for Safety workers, with their richer pensions and much younger full/unreduced retirement ages, it would require a level annual payment of approximately 50% of pay.

            Are you really this clueless ?
            ———————————-

            Quoting … ” But to think that most public workers have it so good is really being disingenuous.”

            I believe that the majority of Public Sector workers accept as true a great deal of misinformation (most of it intentional) from their Unions, and (for the intelligent among them able and willing to understand) they would indeed be shocked at how much better they have it (financially) vs their Private Sector counterpart if it were accurately explained to them. It sounds like you fit into that category. Example: while I’m quite sure you won’t accept it it as true (too painful to do so), the pensions ROUTINELY granted Public Sector workers are 3x-4x (4x-6x for Safety workers) greater in value upon retirement than those of Private Sector workers earning the SAME wages, retiring at the SAME age, and having the SAME years of Service. Suppose for the moment that you accept that as accurate….. how can that possibly be justified when (especially in NJ) there is little Private/Public Sector “wage” difference to offset than HUGE Public Sector pension advantage?

  4. Posted by Anonymous on September 8, 2015 at 7:59 am

    We see how bankruptcy is working for tbe citizen’s of Detroit’s best interest. Even with minimal pension cuts (less than 5%) and elimination of retiree health care (in some instances with a minimal subsidy) their public safety response times are prompting lawsuits!!!

    Reply

    • Well, Psdrone….in their infinite jealous wisdom thinks NJ can do without career firefighters. It’s laughable….. But obviously they have no clue. Keyboard hero syndrome I guess.
      I suggest they walk into a career fire dept, show up to a fire…. Get an idea what these people do everyday!!!!
      I know of career departments that do well over 30-40 calls per day. And no…. Not all are fires…. But they go on everything you could possibly imagine.
      It’s a shame that people think all they do is sit around waiting for a fire…. And if none happen…they do nothing.
      Most career firefighters are certified in confined space, trench rescue, hazmat, ship board fire fighting, high angle rescue…etc.
      all are certified emt’s and some medics. Trust me….. You cannot staff a volunteer department that could manage that amount of call volume. That’s the very reason there are some career depts. Duh!!!! Volunteers are great!!! But they can’t handle 20 calls per day…. Unless of course, TL or PSdrone wants to suit up and jump in!!! Lol!! Which I highly highly doubt!!!

      Reply

      • Posted by S Moderation Douglas on September 9, 2015 at 12:29 am

        Interesting timing, BH. Elsewhere on the interweb, first,

        “Fewer fires, so why are there far more firefighters?”

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2015/09/04/05316abe-517c-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html

        Then, the rest of the story:

        http://campusreports.com/?p=2103

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on September 9, 2015 at 11:50 am

          Yea, there is always the “side” put forth by those advocating for MORE Public Sector workers (and hence MORE dues from their Unions) than really needed …. and in this case Firefighters, when all we REALLY need is FAR FAR lower paid EMTS and paramedics.

          Reply

          • It’s blatantly obvious that nobody is getting through to some people on this blog. You can show them hard evidence….facts! And yet they simply hop right over it simply because it flys against the crap they try to come up with. It’s really just an easy way to live actually. Just spew venom and hate filled propaganda… And when presented with an opposing view that’s backed up by proof and facts… Just ignore it. Lol. TL……you no longer surprise me. I’m really just gonna feel bad for you from now on. So much fight… So much passion… Too bad it will go nowhere. 😦
            I’ve literally had it with this blog. Nothing changes. Even proof and facts don’t sway opinion. That’s not how things should be. So, good luck TL and PSdrone… Whoever else… I forget your stupid names. May Karma one day say hello to you and may you never need the services of those grossly excessively paid police or firefighters. Even if they knew the things you people say and what you would do to them…they would still risk or even sacrifice their lives to save you. Those are the heroes. They deserve every penny.
            I leave you 6 now to high five each other into oblivion. Nothing will change. You’re fighting a lost cause. Have fun copying and pasting the same crap over and over to each other. Lol!!!!!

            S Moderation Douglass…. Good luck to you. Thank you for your service and may you find peace and security knowing you did your time and now you can collect what is rightfully yours. Carry on without me because I simply am far too bored with these crumbs!!

          • Posted by Tough Love on September 9, 2015 at 1:33 pm

            Quoting B … “It’s blatantly obvious that nobody is getting through to some people on this blog. You can show them hard evidence….facts! And yet they simply hop right over it simply because it flys against the crap they try to come up with.”

            Boy, does THAT describe YOU.

            —————

            Quoting BH … “I’ve literally had it with this blog. Nothing changes. Even proof and facts don’t sway opinion.”

            (a) Nobody (but similar-minded Public Sector workers/retirees) will miss you

            (b) What “proof” and “facts” ?

  5. Posted by Anonymous on September 8, 2015 at 8:23 am

    I suggest a panel of equal representation of R’s, D’s, Unions, and private sector taxpayers (individuals and businesses). Using the Commission report as a starting point for discussion come to a reasonable and workable compromise agreement. Remember lack of compromise resulted in the Civil War.

    Reply

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