Pension Payment Opinion Out

The New Jersey Supreme Court released their opinion (5-2) in Burgos v. NJ a few minutes ago and here is the upshot:

10. That the State must get its financial house in order is plain. The need is compelling in respect of the State’s ability to honor its compensation commitment to retired employees. But the Court cannot resolve that need in place of the political branches. They will have to deal with one another to forge a solution to the tenuous financial status
of New Jersey’s pension funding in a way that comports with the strictures of our Constitution. The Debt Limitation Clause and the Appropriations Clause envisioned no role for the Judiciary in the annual budget-making process and prevent it from having to perform the unseemly role of deciding in that process whether a failure to fully fund a statutory program, including one labeled a contract, was reasonable and necessary. A Contracts Clause analysis would require annual incursions by the Judiciary into second-guessing spending priorities and perhaps even
revenue-raising considerations in recurring years. Under the Debt Limitation Clause and the Appropriations Clause, the responsibility for the budget process remains squarely with the Legislature and Executive, the branches accountable to the voters through the electoral process. This is not an occasion for the Judiciary to act on the other branches’ behalf. (pp. 61-68)

The judgment of the Law Division is REVERSED.

More later on the opinion but, for now, if there is anyone out there looking to do any business with the state of New Jersey, it might be a good idea to get your money up front.

51 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by javagold on June 9, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    Silly piggies. If you don’t hold it. You don’t own it. Told you to speed up your learning curve

    Reply

    • Posted by truthnolie on June 9, 2015 at 12:17 pm

      Don’t know about you slaving away at your menial job day after day (is today buy one get one free at Mc’D’s?) but my pension checks keep comin’ every month and will continue to do so……in fact, I have direct deposit so I don’t have to run to the bank to cash it as it may interfere with me being out on my boat on a beautiful day, retired young and doing whatever I want……you mad, bro????

      Reply

      • Posted by javagold on June 9, 2015 at 12:20 pm

        No mad at all sister. But I would be pissed at you big time if I were a public taker lower down on pension ponzi pyramid. Party on girlfriend, the more you get, the quicker it collapses.

        Reply

        • Collapse cannot come soon enough. In this country we only fix something when total chaos occurs. Any half-wit could see during the past 40 years that you cannot pay three people to do one job. No one can collect a pension check for more years than they worked – the arithmetic simply does not work. Work 40 collect for 20; not the other way around.

          Reply

        • Posted by truthnolie on June 9, 2015 at 12:46 pm

          Heeheehee…..no…..you don’t sound the least bit mad.

          All of you are just a bunch of jealous, envy raged tantrum throwers chagrined about the fact that others (like me) were much smarter than you and took a better career path with a pension and benefits, allowing us to enjoy life after retirement instead of trudging along until old and gray either dying while still working or soon after.

          Well…enjoy that!

          Reply

          • Posted by MJ on June 9, 2015 at 12:53 pm

            Truthnolie. You sound as though you are a very angry person. Most people I know very much enjoy their jobs and plan on working at least PT into retirement. For many people work is way more than a paycheck it is a vocation and fulfilling to the individual. No one today was meant to retire at 55/58 years as that age is the new 40! Cheer up and do something nice for someone instead of name calling, insults and tantrums when things don’t go your way.

          • Posted by truthnolie on June 9, 2015 at 1:16 pm

            MJ,

            I sound angry???….You sure you don’t me that Java guy?? Re-read and check.

            No, not at all……very thankful that I chose my career path and now free to do whatever I want (btw….I do work some part time hrs. but only when I want). Just like responding to malcontent PE haters and schooling them.

            Your “work is way more than a paycheck it is a vocation and fulfilling to the individual.” idealistic view is charming but very naive…….very few people love their jobs (or love them after 20 – 30 years) and I’d wager 95% would stop working if the could and spend more time with family, hobbies, etc. and not being chained to a steady schedule if they could have a steady pension & benefits.

            “No one today was meant to retire at 55/58 years as that age is the new 40!”

            Says who??? You? So….you speak for the masses? Where was it decided that you are the arbiter of what age someone can retire? What about those with health issues, dependent family members, etc.

            You seem more with it & reasonable than the majority of posters here but, no offense, your opinion that no one should retire that young also seems to be based on your NOT being able to do so (if you are one of the lucky ones who love your job, good for you though).

        • Posted by Anonymous on June 9, 2015 at 1:29 pm

          wow someone actually replied to javagold, what is the world coming to heh

          Reply

      • Posted by MJ on June 9, 2015 at 12:40 pm

        Pa leeze! Spare us. Doesn’t matter either way on the decision as the pension problem still remains bringing its possible collapse closer and closer to major reforms. Federal courts don’t have anything to do with state budgets

        Reply

  2. Posted by truthnolie on June 9, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    Hey everyone:

    Stop paying your mortgage, credit card bills, utility bills, etc. citing the Christie Doesn’t Have To Pay Doctrine.

    A joke but expected….onto Federal courts.

    Reply

    • Posted by javagold on June 9, 2015 at 12:18 pm

      Ser that’s the point. Homeowners can’t afford to pay their mortgages, credit cards and utilities because it’s too Damn expensive in NJ and the banks don’t want the ponzi to be exposed any more than it already is. Property taxes higher than a mortgage payment is a big big problem for the bankers. Thus the PUBLIC parasites will now be thrown under the bus.

      Reply

      • Posted by truthnolie on June 9, 2015 at 12:53 pm

        So…refuse then to pay your mortgage, credit card, utilities, taxes, etc. and see what happens.

        Better yet…..I think your mortgage co. should be able to come to you and say “you know what…..we’re renegotiating your mortgage (without any input from you) and you need to pay a 1/3 more”….that’s what the state illegally did with Chapter 78 so any company should be allowed right?

        Of course not….not when it affects you.

        Reply

        • Posted by javagold on June 9, 2015 at 1:00 pm

          People will (and have begun) to strategically default and live mortgage free for many years. Then eventually hand a decaying box with a roof back to the banks. The bansksters do not like their flow being messed with. And the public parasites have killed their host and messed with the banksters flow. Funny it’s going to be a fight between public takers and banksters. Pass the popcorn. I don’t like either gang.

          Reply

  3. Posted by Anonymous on June 9, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    Nice decision, and notice that while the decision said …. “The need is compelling in respect of the State’s ability to honor its compensation commitment to retired employees.”…… it was notably silent with respect to the PAST or FUTURE service of CURRENT workers.

    Now it’s time to get on with what is necessary, just, and fair ….. we MUST, at the least, freeze NJ’s Defined Benefit Plans for the FUTURE service of all CURRENT workers, and to replace these Plans (for the workers’ future service) with a Defined Contribution (401k-style) Plan with an employer (i.e., Taxpayer) contribution EQUAL TO but no great than that typically granted in Private Sector 401K Plans (3% to 4% of pay). And for those not now in SS (i.e., Police) an additional contribution NO GREATER THAN the employer’s share of the Total SS contribution (now 6.2% of pay) should be included.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on June 9, 2015 at 12:44 pm

      Nice ANNON aka TL.

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on June 9, 2015 at 12:45 pm

      And ….. for employer-provided healthcare we MUST cut the subsidy ALL THE way down to a level EQUAL TO but no greater than that typically granted Private Sector workers by their employers.

      That should separately be done for the active and retiree groups, with the latter getting just about NO SUBSIDY, because THAT is typically what Private Sector retirees get in employer-sponsored retiree healthcare today.
      —————-
      And yes, that was my comment above.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on June 9, 2015 at 1:33 pm

        TL is a consistent moron and a fine idiot. Shut up you droning babbling butterball. I just realized you may be very overweight, am I right>?

        Reply

    • Posted by formerjerseyan on June 9, 2015 at 1:42 pm

      “The need is compelling in respect of the State’s ability to honor its compensation commitment to retired employees”

      What exactly does this even mean, especially in light of the fact that the Ct did not find in favor of said retired employees? I understand it to mean : compelling but not compelling enough in light of other exigencies consistent with the State Constition.

      So, another year of unfunding, deeper in the hole, and a totally hopeless case. Eventually, NJ will be forced to default on its bonds so anyone dumb enough to hold them is going to deserve what they get (i.e., nothing). That won’t help the retiree bagholders either, though, because NJ is an economic basket case propped up temporarily by Wall St $$$ (brought home to bedroom communities by those everyone loves to hate – the 1 percenters)….

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on June 9, 2015 at 3:15 pm

        The potential for bond default will arise when the pensions reach pay-go …. because there will NEVER be sufficient funds to pay for debt service and monthly pension payment to retirees out of current revenue. …. 3 (maybe 5) years in the future.

        Reply

  4. Posted by MJ on June 9, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    Truthnolie. You protest way too much to be believed that you are not a very angry individual. I’m sure your anger has much deeper roots than the coming reforms Enjoy your boat and direct deposit. Never know what might happen

    Reply

    • I would hate to see that direct deposit fail one of these years. Uh Oh. What do I do now? Have to sell the boat I guess. Should have saved the boat check after all.

      Reply

      • Posted by truthnolie on June 9, 2015 at 2:28 pm

        Not exactly…..have quite a bit in savings & 401K type plan – was also smart enough to take advantage of that and don’t plan on ever touching it unless I have to….401 continues to gain about $1100 a month in fixed interest (moved everything to safety as the market seems to be moving sideways before eventual fall).

        Btw….boat check was not all spent…..many thousands of it went into savings.

        So…appreciate your concern but since I was a financially knowledgeable & adept saver I’ll be fine.

        Happy sailing!…. oops……sorry…..for you guys I should say Happy sitting (in your lifeless cubicles).

        Reply

        • Posted by MJ on June 9, 2015 at 2:34 pm

          Yeah yeah yeah.

          Reply

          • Posted by truthnolie on June 9, 2015 at 3:47 pm

            The Beatles?……let me add on…

            With a love like that
            You know you should be glad

            Although in my case:

            With a pension & savings like that
            You know you should be glad

            AND I AM!!!!!

        • Guess you were reading all of those financial journals while you were “on duty”. Better than lifting weights or watching football I guess.

          Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on June 9, 2015 at 1:35 pm

      MJ it is very easy to see how much hatred you have inside you. sorry but it isnt hard to see. read your posts and be honest with yourself.

      Reply

    • Posted by formerjerseyan on June 9, 2015 at 1:54 pm

      Here is my favorite quote:

      “Voter approval is required to render this a legally enforceable contractual agreement compelling appropriations of this size covering succeeding fiscal years; otherwise, this agreement is enforceable only as an agreement that is subject to appropriation, which under the Appropriations Clause renders it subject to the annual budgetary appropriations process”

      In other words – it is not a contract!!! And contract law is a matter of state, not federal law (there is no “federal common law” according to the so-called Erie doctrine. So, a federal challenge will also fall on deaf ears.

      So, now the publix are on the same footing (quicksand) as any other party to whom the State of NJ is indebted!!

      Reply

  5. Posted by truthnolie on June 9, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    All that is needed to know can be seen in the dissent:

    “The Federal Contracts Clause forbids precisely what the State did in this case — legislatively impairing the contractual rights conferred on public workers by Chapter 78.”

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on June 9, 2015 at 3:10 pm

      LOL ….. there a reason it’s called a dissenting opinion. His opinion DOESN’T count….. his side LOST.

      And ultimately, YOU will lose as well ….. as reality and the MATH always governs, and there never WAS, isn’t NOW, and never WILL BE sufficient money to fully pay for the grossly excessive pension & benefit “promises” that your Unions BOUGHT from NJj’s legislators with campaign contributions and election support..

      Reply

  6. Posted by Anonymous on June 9, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    TL and devout followers; individuals presenting a right wing conservative perspective based on half-truths and lies.

    TL continual posts repetitive misinformation citing sources with extreme ideology. Yet sumarial dismisses other posts with conflicting opinions and sources.

    Specifically, purposely misstated the tax status of public pensions in the following post; https://burypensions.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/christie-curses-out-nj-media/#comments When called to task tried to double talk their way out of it. Standard operating procedure for most of their commentary.

    Fair and equal for all is the mantra. Fair enough, but not when I suggest Federal workers and members of our beloved Armed Forces be part of the bigger conversation. The response, they’re different. But why, because they risk their lives like first responders at home. Their DBP are paid with Federal tax dollars as opposed to State or Local. Everyone knew the job risks when they accepted employment. But they also knew what their salary, pension, and benefits were supposed to be.

    UPDATE: TL and supporters recant their support for Armed Forces and reiterate their disdain for first responders at home and abroad. Basically anyone receiving a public sector DBP. Another example of their double talk further diminishing their credibility. Don’t take my word, click on the blog link and confirm for yourself;
    https://burypensions.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/phonying-up-numbers-to-suit-your-client/#comments

    To blame and demonize public workers for the current situation is unfair and untrue. Do politicians make “deals” with unions that don’t always have the taxpayers best interest? I think everyone knows the answer to that is yes. But politicians are always making “deals” it’s what they do. Just ask the various segment market corporations; defense spending (lucrative contracts), farming (subsidies) and the list goes on and on.

    Your bully tactics and demeaning attitude only motivate me more to push back your parties ridiculous vision for NJ and America. Yes I’m sure John knows all of our IP address, so you and your business name can be exposed as well.

    The purpose of continually posting this comment is to allow the counterpoint perspective to be heard. I will no longer personally engage your comments tit for tat

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on June 9, 2015 at 3:11 pm

      STILL …… the idiot.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on June 9, 2015 at 7:19 pm

        TL is the person who doesnt know what love is. Poor thing

        Reply

        • Can you please stop posting the same useless drivel over and over? Not constructive. You should spend your time looking for some supplemental income for down the road when the pension fund runs dry.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 9, 2015 at 9:09 pm

            PSDrone ….. This is Anon’s way of “compensating” because he can’t “do anything” about the impending demise of his promised pension & retiree healthcare benefits.

      • Posted by Anonymous on June 9, 2015 at 10:25 pm

        calling people morons and idiots, TL and MJ consider that extremely constructive and useful as well as mature.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on June 9, 2015 at 11:11 pm

          When someone pastes the EXACT SAME provocative comment (about 15 times now) …. that’s EXACTLY what they “deserve”.

          I’m surprised John hasn’t put an end to it.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on June 10, 2015 at 7:20 am

            TL is judge, jury and executioner. She also is against freedom of speech and even expects John to run the blog the way she sees fit, which would be silencing anyone who is against her. Christie is the same way. a bully who will do anything to silence his critics even if it is against the law.These people are a genuine threat to the rights of the american people.

          • Posted by Tough Love on June 10, 2015 at 11:12 am

            The “threat” to America’s future is coming from the insatiably greedy Public Sector Unions/workers and our BOUGHT-OFF elected officials who have granted the GROSSLY EXCESSIVE (by every and any reasonable metric) pensions & benefits now in place almost everywhere.

  7. But the parties did “forge” a deal in 2011—–a deal that the Court now says is unconstitutional. An accurate understanding of the Court’s decision is above my pay grade.

    Reply

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