NJ Pension Payment Case Scenario

Posted late this afternoon in the pension payment case were orders accepting the ‘friend of the court’ briefs of two state legislators saying they intended those mini-payments into the New Jersey retirement system to be contractually required and of New Jersey Citizen Action which pointed to a youtube where Governor Christie made a similar admission.

The paperwork is now all in and oral arguments are set for next week but it seems obvious (to me, anyway) what is going to happen.

  1. The trial court’s decision will be affirmed and the brief is likely going to be written over the weekend to be read after oral arguments since there is very little that either side can add and delay limits available options.
  2. Governor Christie will rail against an activist court but will make the extra $1.6 billion contribution probably through another sale of Pension Obligation Bonds.
  3. With the pension and budget issues behind him, Memorial Day announcement of presidential run?

.
From last night’s Ask the Governor program on where we are now on pensions and the budget:
.

73 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 12:44 am

    POB’s …. what a horrible choice and betrayal of NJ’s Taxpayers THAT would be.

    I hope he refuses to pay (w/o equal & offsetting budget cuts of the Democratic Legislature’s choosing) and starts a Constitutional stand-off.

    Reply

  2. Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 6:53 am

    Taxes on Millionaires definitely will be raised, they have not paid their fair share of taxes in decades. Too many loopholes they can take care of and too many payoff by politicians. Also state assets must be sold!!! No doubt about it. It will definitely happen very soon.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 11:03 am

      Quoting …”Taxes on Millionaires definitely will be raised, they have not paid their fair share of taxes in decades. ”

      The above is an amusing statement from one who feels paying a “fair share” is appropriate ……. especially considering the “share” of the REAL total cost of NJ’s extremely generous pensions actually paid by it’s workers is in the 10-20% range.

      How about YOU paying a fair share” of your pensions & benefits?

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 2:22 pm

        What’ the matter did I hit a raw nerve, y\you dont like to think about paying your fair share Ms Millionaire? Well you are going to pay and it wont be long. Oh this is going to be so good!

        Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 9:24 pm

        Tough Love all your website rantings were for naught, the contract and the law will prevail. Christie should step down and move forward, his time is up in Jersey.

        Reply

  3. Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Christie will never win the republican nomination for the presidency. Reason being all his lies are on video tape and will be exposed easily during the primary itself.

    Reply

  4. Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 7:57 am

    The best scenario for all concerned, yes on pensions no on health benefits ARC funding, Governor uses his “financial emergency” powers to negotiate a switch to so called “gold” health benefits at a projected annual savings of $3B, his number not mine. If the Governor’s projections are close to accurate and all parties can agree to extend the unfunded liability amortization to rolling 40 year straight line method using pre GASB 67&68 the State’s immediate budget and cash flow problem is resolved. Concern over ARC funding not in compliance with GASB and pension fund’s short term cash flows.

    Reply

    • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 8:14 am

      The unions have been trying for years to meet with this administration to speak about the issues. Not once has the door been opened!! I know many public safety employees who are willing to negotiate concessions in the wake of our economic times. These people are not greedy as TL would lead you to believe, they just want a voice at the table. If they are going to take less and do more, they want a say in the matter instead of having it stuffed down their throats!!! Many non safety employees should not have free healthcare anyway. Everyone, even they know that’s gonna end someday. Heslthcare is as big an issue here. And I for one think it’s an easier road to champion with considerable savings.

      Reply

      • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 8:17 am

        Everyone in the public sector pays 35% of the premium. Now, non safety employees will and should bare a bigger burden.
        Then, we go after the insurance companies next. 26-30% yearly increases is insane! That needs to be the next battle! Reform that industry, create more competition so prices drop.

        Reply

        • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 8:42 am

          I generally agree with you comments, not sure about the 35% because c.78 required graduated sliding scale and I’don’t know what the “average” % of premium share is. If pw’s allow differentiation by service class that allows a divide and conquer approach on current and future reforms. Up until now, this Governor has maximized that effort. Let’s us not forget, his initial campaign lies to public safety workers and teachers got him elected! He PROMISED them, well you know the rest.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 8:47 am

            Forgot to mention, you’re right on point about insurance companies but interesting that’s never been the Governor’s focal point in trying to champion savings. Special interest at play no our politicians wouldn’t do that?

          • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 9:22 am

            Ch78 instituted in 2011… Most employees are at the 4 year phase..35%.

            Pensions were a sacred trust that he would never touch. That was to get in office… The unions read right through that and backed Corzine… Thus the bully tactics and the reforms on the backs of the public employees…. He’s a bloated baby bully who takes his ball and goes home. He stands for no issues that do not serve the elite and his own pockets. His wife just left a $500,000 job……this could signal his run for POTUS. Good riddance. Get him out of NJ.
            So sick of this guy already.

          • Posted by dentss dunigan on April 28, 2015 at 11:11 am

            Yet nobody gives Christie credit for bringing the state back ….look at what he has accomplished everyone else recognizes all the good ….http://www.stateintegrity.org/your_st

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 11:47 am

            If there are unfair insurance costs, it’s likely NOT going to the insurance companies, but to the brokers and intermediaries who have their greedy hands in the pot….. all being VERY well-connected politicians and “power-brokers”.

            You can and SHOULD fix THAT, but trying to force the Insurance Companies themselves to operate w/o a reasonable “profit” component won’t work. They are a private enterprise and will leave NJ’s insurance market if premiums are unduly restricted.

            If you recall, NJ tried that with NJ’s auto insurance 10-20 years ago and all but 2-3 auto insurers left the NJ market, causing an insurance “crisis”. NJ had to give in BIG-TIME to get them back, including such things as allowing premium-rating based on credit scores (GEICO demanded that to re-enter the NJ insurance market).

          • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 12:02 pm

            Quoting dents Dunagan…..”Yet nobody gives Christie credit for bringing the state back ….look at what he has accomplished everyone else recognizes all the good ….http://www.stateintegrity.org/your_st…“”
            **File not found

            Give Christie credit??? What??
            Three-quarters of New Jersey residents believe Gov. Chris Christie has made minor or no real accomplishments to the state since first taking office, according to a new poll.
            He has done nothing for New Jersey, literally lied (Bridgegate, Helicoptergate, Europegate and other various -gates) and wasted money like we owe him.
            He is, as an elected official, supposed to support our state. What has he done? The answer is: He left us.

          • Posted by S Moderation Douglas on April 28, 2015 at 3:32 pm

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 29, 2015 at 1:05 pm

            S. Moderation Douglas,

            More omissions of material fact from S. Moderation Douglas, ….

            Yes, while NJ workers (under the 2011 changes) may be paying a higher “percentage” of the total healthcare cost, that article also stated …

            “while the cost of New Jersey public employee health insurance coverage remains the third-highest in the nation:”

            A modest understanding of math tells us that the Taxpayer’s share (in dollars) of a HIGH-COST policy (even with the workers paying a higher “percentage” of the total cost than elsewhere) can be more in dollars (perhaps much more) than a smaller percentage of a LESS-COSTLY policy.

      • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 11:16 am

        Quoting … “Many non safety employees should not have free healthcare anyway.”

        That implies that safety workers SHOULD has “free” healthcare. Why, are they THAT special ?

        And speaking of “special”, I see that you haven’t responded to my comment to you in an earlier post of John’s. Care to respond now ? Here is that comment, pasted just below:
        ———————————————————————————————
        OK, let’s pursue that ….

        How much does that “specialness” translate into greater pensions and better benefits ?

        Most Taxpayers (myself included) would not object to a somewhat greater pensions for police …… say being able to collect a full/unreduced pension at age 60 instead of 65. THAT, is mathematically equivalent to a 1/3 increase in value of their pension……. a multiplier of 1.33.

        Let also be generous and say that their pension formulas should be a bit richer, say 25% ……. a multiple of 1.25.

        Those multipliers are not additive, but multiplicative, making a pension so calculated 1.33 x 1.25 = 1.66 or 66% (i.e. 2/3) GREATER than that of a similarly situated (in pay, years of service, and wages) Private Sector taxpayer.

        Rich enough for you ? Most (including myself) would think so.

        But it evidently is FAR from sufficient for NJ’s Police or the Elected Officials BOUGHT with their Union’s campaign contributions. You see, NJ police pensions (assuming the COLA is reinstated as most expect) are easily FOUR times greater in value at retirement ….. yes, not 66% greater, but 300% “greater” than those of comparably situated Private Sector Taxpayers.

        And evidently our Elected Officials felt that even THAT doesn’t sufficiently compensate for their “specialness”, granting (what at the Local level is) FREE retiree healthcare (which almost nobody in the Private Sector gets any longer) which for family coverage, costs Taxpayers an ADDITIONAL $30K annually.
        ——————————————————–

        At what point is their “specialness” costing Taxpayers TOO MUCH ?

        Reply

        • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 12:14 pm

          They are special for many reasons.

          1) their local pension funds are sustainable and if properly funded, will remain that way.

          2) you do not want a 65 or even 60 year old cop or firefighter doing that job. Special in a sense that-
          A- you could not do it at age 60 or 65. Neither could I.
          B- they risk their lives. And yes… It’s the job they signed up for. But let’s not forget… They risk their lives knowing that they and their families will be taken care of medically and financially. A sacred trust like our governor said while campaigning for votes. Can you say your job entails the same risk? Really? Can you….you yell equal and fair. Make their jobs as safe as yours and we can discuss equal and fair. Until then…. They are special.

          3) they pay 10% into their pension!! More than any other pension. Before ch78, they paid 8.5%. Again, significantly MORE than the other unions/pension funds.

          4) they now pay 35% of their healthcare now and into retirement. (Anyone who had 20 or more vested years in 2011 was exempt).

          You can write about multipliers and fair and equal all you want. It makes no difference. The safety public employees have a difficult and dangerous job. More so than you or I. They are special. They deserve better.

          I’m with you on the other pensions. They are screwed because of their own mistakes. The safety public employees have paid more and risk more than any others.
          To me… That makes them special.
          You think not…. And that’s fine. Thanks god we live in a society where you get to think and say that. But at the end of the day…. They are. And they deserve what was promised and negotiated in good faith.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 1:41 pm

            So perhaps we should DOUBLE their pensions ….. making them almost TEN TIMES greater in value at retirement than those of similarly situated (in pay, years of service, and age at retirement) Private Sector workers ?

          • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 4:06 pm

            Oh lord…. Like a broken record!!!! Equal equal equal equal…. In pay in years in age in pay in years in age…. Pay equal age equal!!! Ugh!!!!!
            Why don’t you see that they are not the same. Not equal. Apples and oranges. Private sector. Public sector!!!!

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 4:20 pm

            Truth hurts ?

    • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 11:09 am

      Quoting …..”extend the unfunded liability amortization to rolling 40 year straight line method”

      meaning …. a continuation of making FUTURE generations pay for today’s services.

      Fair ? Appropriate ? NO, reduce the pensions for the future service of all CURRENT workers and use the savings to help pay off the unfunded liability for PAST pension service accruals.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on April 29, 2015 at 9:19 pm

        Considering a full payment hasn’t been made in 25 years, sounds fair to me. You do know that Whitman used the money she saved by cutting the pension funding was used to fund property tax rebates right? In essence, the deferred compensation due to employees was given to the general public.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on April 29, 2015 at 10:03 pm

          Of course making FUTURE generations (who will receive no benefit in return for such payments) pay for YOUR family’s Public Sector pensions seems fair to YOU ……………. because you’re a greedy little man.

          Reply

  5. Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 8:52 am

    insurance company (norcross) is in bed with the politicians, they stand the most to lose if benefits are decreased. Dont worry TL is still nursing a hangover, you wont hear from her until later in the day.

    Reply

  6. Posted by Eric on April 28, 2015 at 9:11 am

    We need a single-payer health care system in the US. We are the only industrialized nation without it. It is medicare for all with no role for the corrupt insurance companies.
    Why are you not discussing this instead of the moronic divide and conquer approach? All NJ residents would have health care coverage. No one would lose a home due to a non covered procedure or an event and the state would save money in the long-term.
    Eric

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 9:14 am

      What a novel idea but you just riled a GOP hornet’s nest!

      Reply

    • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 9:37 am

      Christie created this “moronic divide and conquer approach” you speak of. And it will be the survival of the fittest at this point. Unions tried to sit down with this governor. He never opened the door. Only the NJEA decided to take the back door approach. Attempting to circumvent the other unions…. By doing so, the other unions now severed ties with them. No longer is it a coalition, ..by their own doing. Now they want to back out of talks to save face. Sorry. Too late. The other unions and their own members see the writing on the wall. Too little too late. He pitted the public against the private. Then he pitted the public against the public. With all of us fighting, we forgot to look at the lies that we’re going on right in front of our faces. So dumb. Such a shame.
      Public safety employees will be the only ones coming out of this mess with anything of value.
      All we will eventually do is destroy employment in this already embattled state. We will destroy public safety and education. Employees will no longer trust the employer or the tax payer. So, I say good job!! We just cut off our nose to spite our face by being jealous with an air of communism. Equal and fair will rule the land. But don’t cry when you have dirt bags working the state. Cops and firefighters not caring about the job…teachers who could care less about students. That’s what we all wished for. That’s what we will all get. Do you think the politicians care?? Their families go to private schools. They hold all the money. All the power!!!
      We idiots, the meat with eyes will end up even worse off when this is all said and done. Mark my word!!! But hey, that’s the state of affairs isn’t it? I don’t get, so nobody should. I didn’t better myself, so the norm should be set at my level. No longer set the bar higher and higher, we lower it so EVERYONE gets through. Everyone gets a trophy. Everyone wins!!!! Yeah right!!!

      Later…..

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 9:53 am

        Don’t despair, have faith because in the end cooler heads will prevail and the TL’s, BH’s, and Anonymous’s of NJ will be just fine, at least that’s the positive thought we need to project!

        Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 12:11 pm

        Quoting …”Public safety employees will be the only ones coming out of this mess with anything of value.”

        BH, always motivated by personal self-interest.

        Anyone else …the Taxpayers, the OTHER Public Sector workers … under the bus.

        Reply

  7. Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    Not under the bus. And not because of self interest. Read my reply to your above post. I clearly explain why I feel they are different and special and why they should be treated different. It’s just facts. They paid the most. Continue to pay more…. So, you simply can’t just LUMP THEM ALL TOGETHER!!! That’s just stupid!!! Unfair. And typical of the way this world is heading. I don’t have it. Nobody should. I didn’t earn it. So nobody should. My bar is set so low….. So instead of raising it…. Everyone should be equal to me!!!! That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard!!!!
    “Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up, it knows it must outrun the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the slowest gazelle, or it will starve. It doesn’t matter whether you’re the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you’d better be running.”-McDougall

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 12:33 pm

      Quoting … “They paid the most.”

      No, while paying the MOST in “dollars”, the paid the LEAST as a percentage of their promised pensions (being FAR more generous than those of non-safety workers).
      ————————

      You need some anger management.

      Reply

      • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 4:14 pm

        Are you saying that police and fire pay the least out of the 5 pensions????
        Show me another state or public employee that pays over $1,000.00 per month into their pension!! And 35% of their healthcare premium.
        Your statement makes no sense…. While paying the most in dollars??? What else would you like them to invest?…their blood??? Because they already do!!!
        They paid the least as a percentage for their pension???? Lol. And I like how you use the word..PROMISED!! Because for once you’re correct.
        How can you pay the most and yet pay the least????
        Whatever…. They pay more in blood sweat and tears than any of you goofballs!! So, continue your rants about equal and fair while they go out and do!! Go walk a mile in their shoes…. See if you still feel the same!!!!

        Later……

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 4:24 pm

          Yes, as a percentage of he true cost of their promised pension, Police pay the LEAST.

          That doesn’t connect with you because you know squat about pension funding.

          Reply

          • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 4:33 pm

            Lol!!! You’re resorting to taking shots lately in many of your posts now TL…seems you either read the writing on the wall and realize this situation will never ever go the way you envisioned an fed that makes you mad..huh??!!! It’s already almost a forgotten thing. People are onto bigger and better, like chrispy taking their social security. Lol!!! Boo hoo….I paid into my social security,,, and now it’s gonna be taken away??!!! Lol. Chrispy just digs himself deeper and deeper!!! Who in the world would ever back him how. He’s showing his hand and NOBODY likes it. If only people who thought like you would be willing to sit and compromise… Maybe you would have valiantly walked away with at least something….. But like your governor…. You want it all,, NOW!!! People don’t blow that direction.
            Oh I know very much about pension funding. And I also know when someone else doesn’t. But more importantly…. I know how this state runs. Politics trump numbers. Votes trump opinion. And dictatorships never last!!!
            Have fun 10 years from now posting the same drivel here about equal and fair.

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 5:29 pm

            Politics only trumps the #s for so long … and we’ve now crossed that point.

            In less than 5 years, NJ’s Public Sector pensions are “toast”.

            When these Plans hit zero assets (in less than 5 years) it will be either

            (a) pension checks cut from current annual revenue OR
            (b) pension reductions.

            And, with (a) requiring a tax increase of $8+ Billion, there is ZERO chance of that happening.

            Public Sector workers/retirees will need a Plan “B” for their retirement.

  8. Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 4:28 pm

    Columbo has revised all posts and is ready to solve this case, clearly BH is or was a first responder and TL was or is an insurance (or related industry) upper level management positiin.The reality is COMPROMISE which means nobody gets their way, something adults should understand?

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 4:31 pm

      Sorry for the typos but I’ve been reviewing the State’s CAFR, boring!

      Reply

    • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 4:43 pm

      Being a first responder makes no difference. Because of “skin in the game”, as TL puts it?? I’ve already said long ago I’m a private sector thug. But know many many public safety employees through the charity work I am involved with.
      Compromise was offered many years ago. The publics were lied to so many times now…. If I were them…. Compromise is off the table. He pressed them to sue. The state will lose. And he will be forced to pay. It could have been another way. But this administration wants to play hardball. Anyone who doesn’t see that is nuts. This guy does not care about the state. He does not care about pensions or healthcare…. He does not care about you or I. He needs a national issue to tackle…. He has nothing left. Solving the pension issue is nothing compared to what he wants to do with social security. He’s got us all looking around fighting each other while he and his elitist make millions.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 5:04 pm

        I’m not coming to his, TL’s or your defense. I meant no I’ll will to either of you, Governor excluded, by my Columbo conclusion. Just trying to keep a very serious and sensitive situation light. In order to move forward with this issue we have to leave the past and look to the future which will inevitably require a reasonable compromise solution, hopefully.

        Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 5:32 pm

        You have also stated that several family member are in Safety positions …… hence your self-interest and greed.

        Reply

        • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 6:09 pm

          Passion….not greed! Big difference. I just believe what’s right is right. Sorry for being a bit old school…..
          It’s not easy to keep a situation light where people’s retirement lies in the balance.
          Trust me, I get it. Past is the past. But I’m so sick of hearing this equal and fair crap!! Nothing is equal and there is no fair unless you’re in 2nd grade.
          I’ll say it again….. Make the public safety jobs as safe as yours and then we can talk about equal and fair. Until then it’s just BS!!!

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 6:45 pm

            Interesting …. Equal and Fair” is “crap”.

            If those you advocate for (your family members) were on the side getting LESS, I’m VERY sure that you would be singing a different tune …. and VERY strongly advocating for “equal”.

          • Posted by BH on April 28, 2015 at 8:06 pm

            Getting less of what??? Less from the job they took 20 or 30 years ago… That all of a sudden gets the rules changed in the later stages of their lives after they’ve planned and created their entire future based off assumptions that they would be vested in a negotiated pension that they had no choice but to pay into that entire time……..at an ever increasing rate. This vilifying of the people that are hard workers is sooooo wrong. Anyone in their shoes would feel slighted and betrayed. All the while people like you, call them greedy!!! Truly unbelievable. And I’m ashamed for you. I’m ashamed at how this entire thing is being played out. Blaming these people……its embarrassing. We instead should all be rallying behind these people. Thanking them for their service and ENSURING they get their pensions and healthcare like they were promised, like they deserve. And then we should find out how the private sector can get ourselves back in better shape.

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 8:17 pm

            Private Sector workers get LESS … a MINIMUM of 2/3 LESS … in retirement pensions & benefits (retiree healthcare) than Safety workers.

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 8:22 pm

            BH, I’ve read you last comment 3x ….

            I cannot think of any commentator who comes across as so greedy and with such a taxpayer-be-damned attitude.

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 8:43 pm

            BH,

            And to add to my last comment ….

            If anyone’s head deserves to be banged against the wall for the financial situation NJ now finds itself, it’s the decades of Elected Officials (Both State and Local) that granted these grossly excessive pensions and benefits that (in MANY cases they KNEW) we could not afford, simply to enhance their political ambitions.

            Too bad you can’t force THEM to personally make the system financially whole. But demanding that the beleaguered Taxpayers to do so is adding salt on a festering sore.

  9. Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    Like it or not all will be resolved with some sacrifice by everyone, as previously mentioned two key factors will be cutting health care cost and extending the unfunded liability amortization period. It”s an unfortunate reality that NJ PWs & taxpayers will have to live with and quite frankly we’re all indirectly responsible for because we ( being used in the collective majority context) elected the officials responsible.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 9:11 pm

      Not an unlikely outcome ……….. but part of that “solution” must include either freezing the current overly generous DB Plan for the future Service of all CURRENT workers, or materially reducing (by no less than 50%) the future service pension accrual rate, to stop digging the financial hole we are now in even deeper every day.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 9:30 pm

        Details aside my opinion is the reduction in DBP is a better option, keeps member contributions flowing into the system but any agreement would have to include constitutional funding to take it out of future politicans’ hands or we’ll be blogging about this from our nursing home beds down the road.

        Reply

        • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 9:54 pm

          I’m pretty well versed in pension funding, and the annual employEE contributions are rarely sufficient to pay for even 20% of the Normal Cost of their OWN annual accruals, let alone contributing an excess that can help fund the pension shortfall associated with those already retired. It’s a misunderstood illusion to believe otherwise.

          I believe a hard freeze to the current DB Plan is the FAR FAR better choice for one VERY good reason. It would be a GREAT DEAL HARDER for a future administration (more friendly to the Unions and with little concern for taxpayer interests) to undue such a freeze than to start undoing a reduction in the pension accrual rate.

          Yes a Constitutional guarantee of funding a reasonable Plan (fair to taxpayers) OUT of the politician’s hands is very important, but no less so is keeping OUT of the politician’s hands the future ability to put us BACK in this mess via re-growing the pension formula factors or improving the “provisions”.

          Reply

          • Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 10:09 pm

            Well it’s out of our hands but maybe our leaders will do the right thing by all of us. Going with your 20% assumption, assuming benefits under the current plan were cut by 50%, that 20% becomes 40% so taxpayers would be on the hook for 60% instead of 80%. If their solution is to keep the DBP then let’s take the funding and the benefits out of the politicians’ and unions’ hands by making the funding and benefits part of a constitutional amendment. Maybe they’ll decide to freeze the DBP in which case the constitutional amendment would specifically address the funding.

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 10:47 pm

            We can only hope that intelligent, well-informed, and financially responsible minds will prevail.

  10. Posted by Anonymous on April 28, 2015 at 11:04 pm

    BTW, retrospectively all PWs should be treated equally regarding reform impact. Prospectively, when future reforms are negotiated and agreed to the various unions representing their membership can argue their respective cases accordingly.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on April 28, 2015 at 11:10 pm

      I doubt that commentator BH would agree with your 1-st sentence ….. per his numerous comments above.

      As to FUTURE Service pensions … fairness to Taxpayers (vs what THEY typically get) is imperative.

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on April 29, 2015 at 8:08 am

        I think we all get it, there’s enough blame and feeling of being sold out to go around but we are where we are, now we need to get out of it.

        Reply

  11. Posted by MJ on April 29, 2015 at 8:32 am

    If the solution is to borrow, why all the drama? Will this give Christie someone to blame such as the courts. How will the pension obligation bonds be paid back? How will this affect the the budget, services, funding etc? Does anyone read anything but this blog? Current workers are having less offspring and making less money. Good jobs are not so easy to find in NJ and many college graduates are moving to more economically stable states. There may not be anyone left in NJ but the publics who have to live here and those not working at all (disabilities, welfare, etc). Am I the only one who notices all of the “for sale” signs in NJ?

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on April 29, 2015 at 9:10 am

      Personally I don’t think POB’s will happen, who really knows how the courts will decide and what will happen as a result of their ruling. If POB’s were issued the debt service probably wouldn’t come due until after CC left office, previous Administrations have structured similar deals for varying purposes. As to your point, that is why it’s imperative this and the TTFA issues get resolved. Economic certainty and updated infrastructure are key for NJ’s recovery!

      Reply

      • Posted by Anonymous on April 29, 2015 at 9:38 am

        Last point before signing off, hopefully everyone appreciates and respects everyone for what they do and their contribution to society, I do. Hopefully we all willing chose our profession for varying reasons, wanted to make a difference, because of the benefits, wanted to strike it rich, etc. – no conclusions just an observation.

        Reply

        • Posted by S Moderation Douglas on April 29, 2015 at 4:27 pm

          Hear, hear. Even the often criticized “politicians” (most of them, anyway). Easy to criticize and blame them, but they have an awesome responsibility and limited resources. No matter what compromises they make, they end up antagonizing half the population, or more. Between Scylla and Charybdis.

          Even Christie said he would be happy to fully fund the pensions ………IF…….. he could. OK, that didn’t antagonize half the population, but it sure got TL bent out of shape.

          Appreciation and respect for all the underpaid public sector doctors, lawyers, MBAs and CPAs, and all the overpaid janitors and clerks.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on April 29, 2015 at 9:58 pm

            Yes to respect.

            No to over-compensation…………particularly via the ALWAYS understated cost of extraordinarily generous pensions & benefits.

  12. Posted by MJ on April 29, 2015 at 9:51 am

    Recalling John’s earlier blog about all of NJ’s downgrades, I’m wondering who would broker the bonds knowing that they may not get paid back in full. I guess the Wall Street pigs only care about getting their hefty commissions for putting the “deal” together.

    Reply

    • Posted by Anonymous on April 29, 2015 at 1:28 pm

      BINGO!

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on April 29, 2015 at 2:15 pm

      Quoting ………..”I guess the Wall Street pigs only care about getting their hefty commissions for putting the “deal” together.”

      Sounds like most Public Sector workers/retirees wanting all the were “promised” even though those “promises”:

      (a) were grossly excessive even BEFORE the round after round of increases (often retroactively applied to PAST as well as FUTURE service years)
      (b) were CLEARLY the result of collusion between the Public Sector Unions and our Elected Officials BOUGHT with campaign contributions and election support
      (c) are ALWAYS multiples greater in value at retirement than those of similarly situated (in pay, service years, and age at retirement) Private Sector workers
      (d) Were no different than the promises made to Private Sector workers where is is both legal and routine to (prospectively) reduce or freeze such pension accruals
      (e) are very clearly too costly and strangling America’s States & Cities

      Public Sector workers/retirees are certainly at (or very near) the top of the list of the most “greedy”.

      Reply

  13. Posted by Anonymous on April 29, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    There’s way too much hatred and jealousy at play here, a move towards a socio- political structure like Switzerland may prove beneficial.Higher taxes for all, everything provided by the government, and I’m assuming, drawing on an American analogy, the 99% are on a more even keel and the 1% go on their merry way.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on April 29, 2015 at 4:40 pm

      No hatred nor jealousy, just recognizing a decades-long Public Sector pension/benefit driven financial “mugging” of the Taxpayers …. that needs to end FULLY, no longer with the itty-bitty tinkering around the edges.

      Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: