Spanking Judges

The New Jersey legislature didn’t like that judges got to ignore their call for higher participant contributions so:
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.
Today, according to nj.com:

In a rare bipartisan show of support, the Senate, in a special session, voted 28-0 to ask voters to amend the state constitution to give lawmakers the power to enact laws that reduce judicial salaries.  The Assembly voted 62-3 in favor.  With a three-fifths majority of both houses, the measure now goes onto the election ballot this November for voters to decide.

Of course this ballot measure will pass, possibly by record margins but, what they’re not telling you…….

This is far from a panacea.  Judges now contribute 3% of their salaries, about $2 million annually, into their plan.  Even after the full 12% is phased in that only means an extra $6 million going into a plan that has around $250 million left and is paying out $45 million a year.

It’s posturing on what can be done because this governor and this legislature don’t have the stomach to face a reality that still includes reneging on promises, doubling taxes, or some combination.

49 responses to this post.

  1. […] actually rather impressed at the unanimity on display here. As John Bury says, this ballot measure is likely to overwhelmingly pass in NJ.  But Bury has some bad […]

    Reply

  2. Posted by Tough Love on July 30, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    John, Of course it’s just symbolic (not a panacea), but the arrogance of the judges needs a good rebuke from the Taxpayers saying that …YOU’RE A BUNCH OF PIGS !

    Now, with respect to ALL of NJ’s pension Plans, a real “Panacea” would entail:

    (a) a minimum 50% reduction (75% for safety workers) in the pension accrual rate for future service for CURRENT (not just new) workers combined with an increase in the full (unreduced) retirement age to 65 (62 for police) for all workers not currently age 55. Even after these changes, their retirement Plans would remain better than 90% of the Plans Private Sector workers participate in (if any).

    (b) a redirection in accrued pension credits for past service to REMOVE that portion of promised pensions that resulted from the Union/politician collusion ….. the quid-pro-quot of Union campaign contributions and election support in exchange for favorable votes on pay, pensions, and benefits. And that reduction should ALSO be at least 50%.

    Taxpayers are fed up with being financially raped by greedy Public Sector Unions/workers and enabling politicians.

    Reply

  3. Posted by Anonymous on July 30, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    If you think Pensions are your worst and only problem, that is what they want you to think. They are stealing from you and it cant be stopped until you have nothing left. But I dont blame you for not believing it, it would be too difficult to accept.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on July 30, 2012 at 9:10 pm

      You never stop trying to say our financial problems are anything and everything EXCEPT the grossly excessive Public Sector pensions.

      Who are you trying to convince ?

      While we do indeed have other issues that need to be addressed, few are as corrosive to State & City obligations to provide essential services as these excessive Public Sector pensions and benefits.

      Reply

  4. Posted by Javagold on July 30, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    i will be voting NO !!!!!!!

    Anything to speed up the demise and total collapse of the pension ponzi

    Reply

  5. Posted by Eric on July 31, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Anonymous:
    I do agree with you that there are bigger problems at hand such as the endless wars and the Federal Reserve monetizing the debt and holding interest rates at zero because it wants to prolong the inevitable. See Jim Willie.
    Tough Love, I am always confused when trying to ascertain a range of time for the plans to become a pay as you go or retirees are suddenly paid from a general fund from the state budget since the pension funds are unable to do so any longer. This whole alternative investment and the bogus 20% yearly increase or appreciation in value has made this issue more cloudy for me to try to compute a time frame. I simply have too many unknown factors.
    Thanks,
    Eric

    Reply

    • Posted by muni-man on July 31, 2012 at 11:37 am

      Should be comical when the state has to release a presser stating something to the effect that “a new general tax surcharge of X% will be introduced, in perpetuity, on all taxpayer (A) income + (B) personal property+ (C) primary residences + (D) inheritances + (E) capital gains + (F) whatever else we deem necessary, in order to fund the obligations of the now defunct NJ pension plans”. The state will solve for ‘X’ each spring
      in conjunction with normal budget process and results will be made public upon approval of the budget.

      Halley’s comet will reappear (2061) before paygo ever happens.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on July 31, 2012 at 12:37 pm

        Fortunately, the tax you describe will never happen as it would accelerate an exodus of productive Taxpaying citizens and businesses.

        Reply

        • Posted by Ramparts on July 31, 2012 at 3:08 pm

          No politician that I can think of will every propose such a tax, and no existing political party would endorse it. So I agree, it will never happen.

          Reply

          • Posted by TREEeditor2 on August 1, 2012 at 10:17 am

            as noted acouple of years ago, my guess as to most easiest way is the state will put a one time average $3000 lien on every residence and building. So it doesnt hurt the owner unless he pulls up stakes or dies in NJ. There will always be turnover of real estate no matter what the economic conditions.

          • Posted by soeedkillsy on August 7, 2012 at 5:21 pm

            So the urban renters again get a free ride …….why not just send every taxpayer a bill for 3K ….

    • Posted by Tough Love on July 31, 2012 at 12:33 pm

      Quoting Eric …”I am always confused when trying to ascertain a range of time for the plans to become a pay as you go or retirees are suddenly paid from a general fund from the state budget since the pension funds are unable to do so any longer. ”

      Or …………. with Plans assets exhausted, pension payouts may be halved, perhaps stop completely, or perhaps IOU’s will be distributed instead of money..

      Reply

  6. Posted by Eric on July 31, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    On the federal level, we may have a VAT tax as well, for all of the money printing and the endless wars. I do not think that the feds would be too sympathetic to the states and their “obligations” even though the feds are as equally corrupt and incompetent.
    In other words, no bailouts for the “little people” including the judges since they are merely like Mickey Mouse in the land of the Wall Street tycoons.
    Eric

    Reply

    • Posted by muni-man on July 31, 2012 at 5:08 pm

      I agree. With $1T more being added to the US debt every 275 days or so, I don’t think the Feds are gonna be very sympathetic to the states. US debt should hit $16T around 8/17.

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on July 31, 2012 at 8:10 pm

      While I agree that the Feds will not be bailing out the States, why do you keep thinking a tax of some sort is necessary to top-off the shortfalls so these Plans can pay full benefits.

      Considering how grossly excessive these Public Sector Plans are, paying half (or less) of the promised pensions and NO TAX is a better (and fair) solution.

      Reply

  7. Posted by In judge of no one on July 31, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    It is surprising how easily original constitutional ideas are being discarded. At least in theory not reducing judicial salaries was a protection against tyranny.

    On the other hand judges are really not judges anymore due to mandatory sentencing. They are more like a cross between clerks and referees.

    Do government workers really contribute anything to their pensions? All the money comes from the taxpayers.

    Since the same amount of money is going to the Judges, working and retired, as a group are they really having their salaries cut?

    Reply

  8. Posted by Eric on July 31, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    Tough Love:
    The tax I was referring to was the Value Added Tax which has been in place in Europe for many years. It is known as the VAT tax. I was not referring to an additional tax to bail out the pension plans. Any VAT would be instituted by the Feds for the runaway spending, deficits etc. and would have nothing to do with State finances. It would be added to purchases made similar to an additional sales tax.
    In judge of no one is correct in that judges are not judges anymore. They are told what to do by the AOC. There is no autonomy or original or any thought for that matter.
    Eric

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 1, 2012 at 2:27 am

      I am familiar with the VAT common in European countries. While I have thought this may come here, if it does, it certainly must not be a source of funds for bailing out the grossly excessive State pension Plan promises.

      They need to be hair-cutted, not bailed out. Fairness to Taxpayers demands it.

      Reply

  9. Posted by Anonymous on August 1, 2012 at 12:24 am

    “Taxpayers are fed up with being financially raped…” Must be kidding…

    What about the $20B+ in pension payments us taxpayers have skipped over the past decade and a half and the billions more that will be skipped during the next 7 years as part of Christi’s saving the pensions plan.

    At this point in time and during the past few decades, the only one raped was the public workers pension fund. Undisputable fact.

    Skip the tired, worn out post and simply tell everyone exactly how much in taxes you have paid each year over the past decade towards municipal, county or state worker pensions. Prove that you, the greatest abused taxpayer of all time, have been raped. SHOW ME THE MONEY!

    Reply

    • Posted by not pc on August 1, 2012 at 1:36 am

      Agreed Anonymous but don’t expect any rational thought or understanding here…..Just about everyone who posts here (Tough Bit*h, muni-boy, Javadope) are all of one delusional mindset who are incapable of rational thinking. They are sheep who unquestionably accept the lies and brainwashing that is put out by their hero (or is that sub sandwich…get it?) Fat Boy Christie and his minions.

      They all speak of public employees getting too much, being underseving of such pensions and benefits, etc. but what they REALLY ONLY care about is themselves and who might be getting something more than them. If you boil it all down, they are all envious that they were not smart enough to get a secure public job/career with lifetime benefits and are jealous of others that did.

      In short…..Public Employees are the “schlmeils” (those who spill the soup) and they are the “schlmazels” (the losers the soup spills it on)……and they deserve nothing less.

      Reply

      • Posted by Tough Love on August 1, 2012 at 2:44 am

        Oh, so are you saying that while Public Sector workers make NO LESS in cash pay than their Private Sector counterparts (per the US Gov’t BLS), they ARE deserving of pensions, the taxpayer paid-for share of which, is routinely 2x, 4x, (even 6x for safety workers) greater in value at retirement than that typically granted the Private sector taxpayer making the SAME pay, having the SAME years of service, and retiring at the SAME age ?

        Please …. look in the mirror. I see a pig. Don’t you ?

        Reply

        • Posted by TREEeditor2 on August 1, 2012 at 10:29 am

          the symbiotic system between the politicians the special interests worked…..until it didnt work.

          NJ has the highest or next to the highest taxes in all brackets of taxation which totals as the highest taxation. Certain factions actually want NJ’ans to have even more highest taxeIs? Can those 2 posters above confirm this is what they want of us? Simple yes or no is fine.

          Just doenst make sense. Us residents thought the system was working fiine and everything was being covered over these years with any further stress on us. Now we are finding out this after the fact. Residents feel they satisfied thier obligations over the 10-15 years running. I don’t see the need as to the taxpayers having more obligations that they have. We have the highest taxes already.

          Reply

        • Posted by not pc on August 1, 2012 at 12:37 pm

          Ohh….you mean those SAME private sector “taxpayers” (By the way – public employees PAY TAXES ALSO) who get SOCIAL SECURITY while the majority of public employees DON”T???

          Are you adding THOSE social security figures into your SKEWED calculations??

          Although you are probably incapable of seeing it, if you look in the mirror what you will find is a sad, disgruntled whiner who is envious of what others have and who is probably very sorry for your lot in life and the feeling you have been taken advantage of. Again…..a “schlmazel”.

          Reply

          • Posted by Tough Love on August 1, 2012 at 1:41 pm

            Stop the bull. SS is a lousy deal for all but the lowest paid workers. THAT’s why Public Sector employers often out.

            And I love the “we’re Taxpayers too” argument. Sure, Public Sector workers are also taxpayers, but did you wonder why nobody EXCEPT Public Sector workers (and obviously the very poor who pay no taxes anyway) want tax INCREASES … and sometimes with their Unions help often RALLY for such increases ?

            It’s because the Public Sector Unions know that almost ALL of the increment money raised from the tax increase will go towards nothing but funding the high pay and excessive pensions of Public Sector workers

            So … the Public Sector workers know that for every $1 in extra taxes THEY will pay, they will get back about $5 from the increased taxes paid by Private Sector workers who will get no benefit whatsoever.

            Oh …. I’m quite capable of seeing through the baloney put forth by you and your ilk. Taxpayers have wised up and realize that for decades they have been financially raped by greedy Public Sector Unions & workers and the self-serving politicians who let it happen.

            It’s WAY past time for a change, and that change will certainly include significant pension reductions for CURRENT as well as new workers …… and those already retired won’t be off the hook. First will be givebacks on retiree healthcare, followed by pension haircuts when (not if) the numbers still won’t work.

          • Posted by TREEeditor2 on August 1, 2012 at 6:37 pm

            always a chuckle when PC brings up the words envious and jealous. the jealousy we feel is similar to the jelousy we feel to the gun that a hold up artist is pointing at us. PC made his bed with the corrupted system the politicians and special interests created together. Now he expects us the taxpayers payign the highest taxes in the nation to bail out his problems he alone created. I feel for you but we got our own problems with too high taxes, unemployment, curbacks and family obligations. We’ll work on trying to straighten this corrupted system out, but you have to stop sleeping with the corrupted polticians. Odd but it appears you would rather try to beat us up, the ones that would actually try to solve the problem you created..

          • Posted by MJ on August 1, 2012 at 7:01 pm

            I agree, NOT PC made his bed with the corrupt people and blood sucking system the he and his like created as long as the money flowed. Now he wants to beat the taxpayers down even more as long as he gets his while those on this post are trying to reform the system so that it is fair to everyone. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you PC as it may come back to haunt you.

      • Posted by MJ on August 1, 2012 at 6:54 pm

        I think it is you who have accepted the lies and now the reality of the situation is finally sinking in. You can call names all that you want but it won’t change a thing. If money was not put into the fund, oh well, then put the blame where it belongs. The reason the money was taken out and never put back was b/c the money was lost never to be recovered and the lying actuaries and accountants and politicians did all that they could to get re-elected by promising things that would never materialize. Real estate taxes are already the dealth knell for NJ so I doubt taxes will go up unless they want to accelerate the impending cuts that will have to be made.

        Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 1, 2012 at 2:38 am

      Anonymous, you are indeed correct that NJ’s past and the next 6 year’s contributions are far less than the annual ARC. But, that ARC is based on fully funding the excessive Plan structure currently in place, Had the benefit structure been more reasonable (i.e., comparable to what Private Sector Taxpayers get from their employers), the annual ARCs would have been MUCH MUCH lower. In fact I’d bet that over the last 30-40 years, employers (meaning Taxpayers) have contributed sufficient funds to fully fund the more reasonable Plan I just described.

      “SHOW YOU THE MONEY” ?? …… there isn’t any, and you can bet that fully funding these excessive Plans is not going to happen.

      Reply

  10. Posted by TREEeditor2 on August 1, 2012 at 10:39 am

    This is probably the worst action to do, to have the residents get to publicly show such disdain toward those in robes who are suppose to maintain integrity of the legal and law system and be held as an indidual and unswayable board. This just furthers the destruction of the govt’ true purpose adn fabric. I hope this blows over quickly and is downplayed from now on.

    Reply

    • So you and Cryan are together on this?

      In theory, this does destroy the independence of the judiciary. But then again, the judiciary is supposed to interpret the intent of the legislature and, in this case, they obviously screwed up royally.

      Reply

  11. Posted by Javagold on August 1, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    this is what it looks like when children are playing musical chairs……whats that i hear ???….the music is starting to slow down…….WATCH OUT !!!!!

    Reply

  12. Posted by Eric on August 1, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    John:
    You have to be a politician to become a judge. That is the only criteria. Many have trouble reading and writing. Some are bright, but most are very dim bulbs. Someone told me that a judge is defined as a politician with a failing law practice. That’s about right.
    Eric

    Reply

  13. Posted by MJ on August 1, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    Anonymous–there is no money, it is all a shell game and NOT PC you better hold on to your boots because change is a coming and coming soon. We are not disgruntled private sector workers we are simply sick and tired of having to pay for overly generous benefits that you do not deserve. You are not special, you are a public worker and although you might believe that you are irreplacable, there would be 200 over qualified candidates lined up for your job. Your unions have “negotiated” you all right out of the free market economy and the naturally occuring laws of economics are tightening the noose further around your necks. You sound very scared that the haircut is coming and want to convince yourself by attacking others that you are secure. One thing all of you publics can count on is that the politicians and union thugs will smash and grab all that they can before the significant reforms, leaving the public workers holding the bag. You are upset that more and more people have become aware of these grossly overly generous pensions, pay and benefits and now you all must face the music. Whine and scream ,call names, all that you want, but get your affairs in order b/c change is a comining!

    Reply

    • Posted by muni-man on August 1, 2012 at 7:29 pm

      When publics get scared, well… they get pukey. They’re finding that safe C-O-C-O-O-N they’ve been living in for years isn’t so safe and indestructible after all, and frankly, it’s got them damn rattled! It continues to unravel and there ain’t a thing they can really do about it because economics is driving the train now, not their bought-off pols. It’s gonna get a lot worse for them in the years ahead too and they simply don’t know how to handle it.

      Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm

      MJ …..WELL STATED !

      Reply

  14. Posted by Anonymous on August 2, 2012 at 2:19 am

    By the way, I think the judges case is a gross situation and needs to be corrected ASAP. They are being PIGS. BUT…

    “… we are simply sick and tired of having to pay for overly generous benefits that you do not deserve…”

    “Taxpayers are fed up with being financially raped…”

    At this point in time and during the past few decades, the only one raped was the public workers pension fund. Undisputable fact.

    Those public workers that retired 10 years ago, 5 years ago and last year are all getting their pension checks which are drawing upon the monies in the pension fund almost exclusively made up of former employee contributions, what they contributed, investment fund returns and ongoing contributions of active workers. This is another fact.

    How in the world can you all say you have been financially raped when the public worker employers at every level (and therefore all of the taxpayers) have been on a pension contribution holiday for 2 decades?? If you haven’t been paying for the pensions then any claim of being raped or sick and tired of paying is outright false and premature.

    Maybe as time goes on, and if the employers actually start to pay, then you all will have a case for complaining.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 2, 2012 at 9:38 am

      For those with some intelligence, it’s quite easy to understand. ALL of the employEE contributions (INCLUDING all investment earning on those contributions) will accumulate to a sum sufficient at retirement to buy 10-20% of the promised pension.

      Taxpayer contributions (and the earnings thereon) are on the hook for the 80-90% balance.

      Now you are correct, that we the taxpayers have not been adequately funding the 80-90% share (allocated to us) ……. but for good reason. It’s TOO HIGH, and that’s because the promises made to you (by self-serving politicians beholden to you for your Union’s campaign contributions and election support) are TOO GENEROUS.

      And guess what ? We the Taxpayers have no intention of fully funding those fraudulently obtained promises.

      The rape is the substantive money we have ALREADY contributed (over many many decades, contribution-holidays notwithstanding …. more than sufficient to fully fund a more reasonable pension comparable to what the typical Private Sector Taxpayer gets) and YOUR expectation that we should pay for 80-90% of the grossly excessive pensions actually promised. We won’t.

      Reply

  15. Posted by MJ on August 2, 2012 at 6:47 am

    Ah yes, the current workers paying for the overly generous pension checks and health benefits of those already retired; another group that will demand reform as they come to realize that there will be next to nothing left for them upon their retirement. Not to mention, the greedy 55 year old retirees who are collecting checks and then take a “new” position thus taking jobs away from younger workers. Overly generous health benefits need to be significantly reduced as well. Yes, I would say change is a coming and the more people who come to realize the seriousnes of the situation the better! Its going to become cut throat as the noose tightens and it will be every public worker for himself as the unions and politicians smash and grab all that they can before the inevitable.

    Reply

  16. Posted by Eric on August 2, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Although I agree that the public workers seem to get too much, however, I cannot help but realize that the Wall Street “Banksters” and their too big to fail bull shit mantra are sitting back laughing with their yachts , homes on the beach, private jets etc. about this constant fighting over the crumbs left from their corrupt tables.
    They did not work hard to obtain wealth, they stole it with some help from the Feds.
    Eric

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 2, 2012 at 9:42 am

      Absolutely true ….. as is the fact that CEO greed in no may diminishes Public Sector Union/worker greed and the need to materially reduce promised pensions and benefits.

      Reply

      • Posted by MJ on August 2, 2012 at 4:39 pm

        I agree that the banksters and CEOs are not deserving either and that thier greed has further eroded the system but the topic was public pensions. The banksters and CEOs are for another discussion. I agree, they are greedy self serving pigs who have done nothing and produced nothing other than steal from the rest of us.

        Reply

  17. Posted by Eric on August 2, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Tough Love:
    The hammer will come down;no none know when. With the Fed keeping interest rates artificially low, CALPERS, is at best, receiving a 1% return instead of 7 or 8. I know that John thinks that NJ will be the first to fall; many of my friends, in the math department, think that a larger state like California may be the first, setting off an unstoppable “domino” effect.
    Bill Gross, a self-made billionaire of PIMCO, said low single digit returns is the best case scenario in this age of a new normal. A greater expectation is simply California dreaming.
    I have no bad wishes for anyone, however, people should be cognizant of economics for their own protection and wonder how long the Fed can prop up the stock market with the “Plunge Protection Team”.
    Eric

    Reply

  18. Posted by Anonymous on August 4, 2012 at 12:20 am

    Eric,
    Glad to see you say you have no bad wishes for anyone. Refreshing compared to Tough Love, MJ, Javagold and others on here that spue their outright hatred towards public workers post after post.

    The Challenge for them was:
    Skip the tired, worn out post and simply tell everyone exactly how much in taxes you have paid each year over the past decade towards municipal, county or state worker pensions. Prove that you, the greatest abused taxpayer of all time, have been raped.

    You say you are simply sick and tired of having to pay for overly generous pensions that public employees do not deserve…”
    SHOW ME THE MONEY!

    Response was:

    silence…

    …and the mandatory insult from Tough Love of “…For those with some intelligence, it’s quite easy to understand…” and a powerful statement of “… The rape is the substantive money we have ALREADY contributed…”

    LOL… OMG… What a joke…

    Bottom Line:
    If taxpayers haven’t been paying for the pensions (which is a proven fact) then any claim of being raped or sick and tired of paying for them is outright false.

    Yes, probably the average situation for current retirees or those retiring soon is that they will ultimately contribute 20 -25% of the total pension benefit they and their beneficiaries will receive. The other 80%, on paper and in theory is owed by the taxpayers. But the huge deficit in the pension fund now and in the future will from the taxpayers 80% share that they never made or will make.

    Tough Love,

    80% of $0 = $0
    or to be fair,
    80% of $ a small amount = $ a lsmall amount no where near 80%

    Heck, it will be years before the state’s annual contribution (maybe) will even equal the employees annaul contributions.

    We might have been raped by paying for the police chief’s unused sick time boat check, the superintendent of school’s car, computer, cell phone, generous teacher salary increases, all weather playing fields, revel casino, free and reduced lunches, etc. and kinds of excessive things but our taxes have NOT been going towards public worker pensions in any substantial way. Period.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 4, 2012 at 12:46 am

      You’re pretty thick. Here, read it again slowly (it’s the truth, and sums up the situation perfectly). Did you miss the ROOT CAUSE …. your pensions are TOO GENEROUS:
      ************************************
      ALL of the employEE contributions (INCLUDING all investment earning on those contributions) will accumulate to a sum sufficient at retirement to buy 10-20% of the promised pension.

      Taxpayer contributions (and the earnings thereon) are on the hook for the 80-90% balance.

      Now you are correct, that we the taxpayers have not been adequately funding the 80-90% share (allocated to us) ……. but for good reason. It’s TOO HIGH, and that’s because the promises made to you (by self-serving politicians beholden to you for your Union’s campaign contributions and election support) are TOO GENEROUS.

      And guess what ? We the Taxpayers have no intention of fully funding those fraudulently obtained promises.

      The rape is the substantive money we have ALREADY contributed (over many many decades, contribution-holidays notwithstanding …. more than sufficient to fully fund a more reasonable pension comparable to what the typical Private Sector Taxpayer gets) and YOUR expectation that we should pay for 80-90% of the grossly excessive pensions actually promised. We won’t.

      Reply

  19. Posted by MJ on August 4, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    Agreed TL. Pensions, salaries, health benefits and perks are way, way too high and thus, too expensive to fit NJ’s budget. Although, I disagree with you that we as taxpyers have not been paying enough—every time my taxes go up it is to fund the increase in the cost of public health benefits and to fund pensions and salaries, etc. I think we have paid more than our fair share for mediocre at best services–we need only look to our educational buearacracy. Nobody was promised a rose garden. Much crueler to keep the publics hanging then to make the necessary and drastic changes necessary so that they can collect some sort of a pension and retire in modesty.

    Reply

    • Posted by Tough Love on August 4, 2012 at 8:28 pm

      MJ, I didn’t mean that we (the Taxpayers ) haven’t been paying enough taxes. I meant that we haven’t been paying the exorbitant sums necessary to fully fund the excessive pensions (as currently structured)….. because they are too generous and therefore very difficult to fully fund.

      I got a good laugh at your suggestion that Civil Servants retiree “in modesty”. They want to retire as royalty, on our dime.

      Reply

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